From malekith at pld.org.pl  Mon May 14 12:12:07 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 12:12:07 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010511140024.A426@priv0.onet.pl>; from gotar@priv0.onet.pl on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 02:00:25PM +0200
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010511140024.A426@priv0.onet.pl>
Message-ID: <20010514121207.A22880@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 02:00:25PM +0200, GoTaR wrote:
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:04:56 +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> 
> > ---------- CUT ---------
> > # syntax
> > #
> > # "*" (" ")* ( "1" | "0" ) (" ")* shortname (" ")* longname "\n"
> > #   this line describes packages group, shortname should contain just [a-z0-9_]+
> > #   1 is for default yes, 0 for no.
> > # package "\n"
> > #   simply package in group
> > # "!" package "\n"
> > #   optinal package (default yes)
>       optional
> 
> just typo...
> 
> > * 0 devel_devel Packages needed for real development.
> 
> Hmmm... maybe !colorgcc?

Hmm... while creating this list I was mainly suggest by my own set of
packages installed at home. I use my homebox hevily for development, so
I guessed other ppl may find this set also useful. And I use vim's
quick fix feature, where colorgcc would be useful. But some ppl may
find it useful (I guess you did), so OK :)

The most important job here is to guess which packages are likly
to be used by most of ppl, so we need many opinions.

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Mon May 14 15:49:22 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 15:49:22 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514135019.A21283@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de>; from dobrek@itp.uni-hannover.de on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:50:19PM +0200
References: <20010514135019.A21283@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20010514154922.A24266@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:50:19PM +0200, Lukas Dobrek wrote:
> 
> 
> I started some negotiation with IBM. This is the answer. 
> I am a litle bit afraid about the word "official" but I will 
> try to convince them that the old stamp of my father is 
> official enought. 

Maybe talk to Intel about ia64?


-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de  Mon May 14 13:50:19 2001
From: dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de (Lukas Dobrek)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:50:19 +0200
Subject: Just for information
Message-ID: <20010514135019.A21283@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de>



I started some negotiation with IBM. This is the answer. 
I am a litle bit afraid about the word "official" but I will 
try to convince them that the old stamp of my father is 
official enought. 

Take Care

Lukasz Dobrek

----- Forwarded message from WWICKE at de.ibm.com -----

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:17:56 +0200
From: WWICKE at de.ibm.com
Subject: Re: PLD on S390
To: Lukas Dobrek <dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de>



Hello,

we are pleased to hear that you are interested in building a Linux
distribution for the S/390 platform.
Actually we are in contact with several distribution partners who have
signed contracts with IBM to distribute
Linux releases for the S/390 and zSeries platform.  You need to become an
official Linux distribution
partner and should contact Scott Handy first (shandy at us.ibm.com), who is
Director of Linux Solutions
Marketing within IBM.
Of course in case of technical issues you may use our Linux for S/390
mailing ID (LINUX390 at de.ibm.com)
to get technical support.

PS.:
For code donations and analysed bug reports contact Linux390 at de.ibm.com

For technical support please contact IBM Global Services:
USA/Canada:
http://www.ibm.com/software/is/mp/linux/support/
http://ps.software.ibm.com
Germany/Austria/Switzerland:
http://www.ibm.com/services/de/linux/index.html

For platform specific technical news and downloads see:
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux390/index.html
http://www.s390.ibm.com/linux/


Lukas Dobrek <dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de> on 11.05.2001 18:52:20

Please respond to Lukas Dobrek <dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de>

To:   BOEBLINGEN LINUX390/Germany/IBM at IBMDE
cc:
Subject:  PLD on S390


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
?ukasz Dobrek
Institut f?r Theoretische Physik
Appelstra?e 2, 30167 Hannover, Germany
e-mail:dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de
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From dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de  Mon May 14 15:51:56 2001
From: dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de (Lukas Dobrek)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 15:51:56 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514154922.A24266@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>; from malekith@pld.org.pl on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:49:22PM +0200
References: <20010514135019.A21283@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de> <20010514154922.A24266@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010514155156.A24349@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:49:22PM +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:50:19PM +0200, Lukas Dobrek wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I started some negotiation with IBM. This is the answer. 
> > I am a litle bit afraid about the word "official" but I will 
> > try to convince them that the old stamp of my father is 
> > official enought. 
> 
> Maybe talk to Intel about ia64?
I already did it.  :)))
But in this case there is no news. :((( 
But lets wait a litle.

Lukasz

-- 
?ukasz Dobrek
Institut f?r Theoretische Physik
Appelstra?e 2, 30167 Hannover, Germany
e-mail:dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de
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From kura at cs.net.pl  Wed May  2 13:23:01 2001
From: kura at cs.net.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3?= Kuratczyk)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:23:01 +0200
Subject: util-linux
Message-ID: <20010502132301.A9830@cs.net.pl>

System: PLD-current + j?dro 2.4.3.

1. Dziwne problemy z mount'em (2.10s i 2.11b):
a) nie pokazuje cz??ci partycji
	[root at firewall root]# mount
	/dev/hda3 on / type ext2 (rw)
	proc on /proc type proc (rw,gid=17)
	
	[root at firewall root]# cat /proc/mounts
	/dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
	/proc /proc proc rw 0 0
	devpts /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
	/dev/hda2 /var ext2 rw 0 0
b) sk?d si? wzi?? ten /dev/root (nie mam w og?le takiego pliku).

2. login z 2.11b (CVS) nie dziala zupelnie (przynajmniej u mnie, wic
   odradzam upgrade)

Jakie? pomys?y?
-- 
Micha? Kuratczyk <kura at cs.net.pl>


From wiget at pld.org.pl  Wed May  2 13:43:06 2001
From: wiget at pld.org.pl (Artur Frysiak)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:43:06 +0200
Subject: util-linux
In-Reply-To: <20010502132301.A9830@cs.net.pl>; from kura@cs.net.pl on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:23:01PM +0200
References: <20010502132301.A9830@cs.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010502134306.D4327@free.buy.pl>

On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:23:01PM +0200, Micha? Kuratczyk wrote:
> System: PLD-current + j?dro 2.4.3.
> 
> 1. Dziwne problemy z mount'em (2.10s i 2.11b):
> a) nie pokazuje cz??ci partycji
> 	[root at firewall root]# mount
> 	/dev/hda3 on / type ext2 (rw)
> 	proc on /proc type proc (rw,gid=17)
> 	
> 	[root at firewall root]# cat /proc/mounts
> 	/dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
> 	/proc /proc proc rw 0 0
> 	devpts /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
> 	/dev/hda2 /var ext2 rw 0 0
> b) sk?d si? wzi?? ten /dev/root (nie mam w og?le takiego pliku).
> 
> 2. login z 2.11b (CVS) nie dziala zupelnie (przynajmniej u mnie, wic
>    odradzam upgrade)
> 
> Jakie? pomys?y?

cat /etc/mtab

Pozdrawiam
-- 
Artur Frysiak
http://www.pld.org.pl/


From kura at cs.net.pl  Wed May  2 13:51:55 2001
From: kura at cs.net.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3?= Kuratczyk)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:51:55 +0200
Subject: util-linux
In-Reply-To: <20010502134306.D4327@free.buy.pl>; from wiget@pld.org.pl on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:43:06PM +0200
References: <20010502132301.A9830@cs.net.pl> <20010502134306.D4327@free.buy.pl>
Message-ID: <20010502135155.A10286@cs.net.pl>

On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:43:06PM +0200, Artur Frysiak wrote:
>> 	[root at firewall root]# mount
>> 	/dev/hda3 on / type ext2 (rw)
>> 	proc on /proc type proc (rw,gid=17)
>> 	
>> 	[root at firewall root]# cat /proc/mounts
>> 	/dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
>> 	/proc /proc proc rw 0 0
>> 	devpts /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
>> 	/dev/hda2 /var ext2 rw 0 0
>cat /etc/mtab
/dev/hda3 / ext2 rw 0 0
proc /proc proc rw,gid=17 0 0

Tylko dlaczego? /proc i /var widz? normalnie - s? podmontowane. Nie ma
tylko wpis?w o tym.

-- 
Micha? Kuratczyk <kura at cs.net.pl>


From dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de  Wed May  2 14:12:29 2001
From: dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de (Lukas Dobrek)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:12:29 +0200
Subject: util-linux
In-Reply-To: <20010502132301.A9830@cs.net.pl>; from kura@cs.net.pl on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:23:01PM +0200
References: <20010502132301.A9830@cs.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010502141229.A25847@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>

On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:23:01PM +0200, Micha? Kuratczyk wrote:
> System: PLD-current + j?dro 2.4.3.
> 
> 1. Dziwne problemy z mount'em (2.10s i 2.11b):
> a) nie pokazuje cz??ci partycji
> 	[root at firewall root]# mount
> 	/dev/hda3 on / type ext2 (rw)
> 	proc on /proc type proc (rw,gid=17)
> 	
> 	[root at firewall root]# cat /proc/mounts
> 	/dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
> 	/proc /proc proc rw 0 0
> 	devpts /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
> 	/dev/hda2 /var ext2 rw 0 0
> b) sk?d si? wzi?? ten /dev/root (nie mam w og?le takiego pliku).
> 
> 2. login z 2.11b (CVS) nie dziala zupelnie (przynajmniej u mnie, wic
>    odradzam upgrade)
> 
> Jakie? pomys?y?
I don't want to be impolite but it is english mail list. Just be more
carefull.

Take Care
Lukasz
-- 
?ukasz Dobrek
Institut f?r Theoretische Physik
Appelstra?e 2, 30167 Hannover, Germany
e-mail:dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de
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From gotar at priv0.onet.pl  Wed May  2 17:12:26 2001
From: gotar at priv0.onet.pl (GoTaR)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 17:12:26 +0200
Subject: util-linux
In-Reply-To: <20010502135155.A10286@cs.net.pl>; from kura@cs.net.pl on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:51:55PM +0200
References: <20010502132301.A9830@cs.net.pl> <20010502134306.D4327@free.buy.pl> <20010502135155.A10286@cs.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010502171226.A1079@priv0.onet.pl>

On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 13:51:55 +0200, Micha? Kuratczyk wrote:

> >> 	[root at firewall root]# mount
> >> 	/dev/hda3 on / type ext2 (rw)
> >> 	proc on /proc type proc (rw,gid=17)
> >> 	
> >> 	[root at firewall root]# cat /proc/mounts
> >> 	/dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
> >> 	/proc /proc proc rw 0 0
> >> 	devpts /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
> >> 	/dev/hda2 /var ext2 rw 0 0
> >cat /etc/mtab
> /dev/hda3 / ext2 rw 0 0
> proc /proc proc rw,gid=17 0 0
> 
> Tylko dlaczego? /proc i /var widz? normalnie - s? podmontowane. Nie ma
> tylko wpis?w o tym.

Check mtime of /etc/mtab. It looks like pre-halt state on ro fs which
hasn't been updated properly during boottime. Didn't you wake up your
system in some weird way? I ain't use PLD rc-scripts but when I looked
at them they seemed to be not vulnerable to power failures etc. These
fses probably have beed mounted with -n flag. You didn't write if it is
an exception or if it starts with this all the time. In the former case
use -f flag to fake mount on mtab file, in the latter - trace it down.

-- 
GoTaR <gotar at priv0.onet.pl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:- a--- C UL+++>++++$ P+(++) L+++>++++$ E--- W-- N+ o? K w--- O?
M- V- PS++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5 X R- tv- b++>+++ DI- D+ G e>+++ h-- r++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de  Thu May  3 21:27:26 2001
From: dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de (Lukas Dobrek)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:27:26 +0200
Subject: rc-boot
Message-ID: <20010503212726.A27727@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de>



I am writing here becouse I need an advise. As some of you 
already know I wrote something called rc-boot. Let me briefly 
explain what it is. rc-boot is a script which should depending on 
some very simple config files prepere config file for a bootloader.
rc-boot provides the function writen in shell called rc_boot_config
which using some easy for authomatic generation config files do the
whole job. Acctualy there are two souch a functions, one for lilo another
one for grub. The problem is how to distribuate this. I spend quite
a long time on quarrell with Tomasz K. And we see two different approaches.
Let me explain them:

1. Approach of Tomasz K. Add this scripts directly to packages with bootloaders.
   Nice and simple but in this case a ppl which don't whant to use rc-boot will 
   have occupied 2KB of disk spce with absolutely useles script. 

The reason why I don't like in this approach are difficoulties in maintainig all this stuff.
After any changes in rc-boot one have to send to builders lilo, grub, and don't forget
to add new sources to this files. And ofcourse this posibly useless scripts which comes
together with bootloader.

2. My idea is to provide two additional packages like rc-boot-grub and rc-boot-lilo. Each of them
   contains the rc-boot script. They conflicts one with the other and one of them no metter 
   which oneis required by kernel package. 

The problem is in dependences this what user should choose is
the kind of bootloader and the rest should come from deps. And I don't really know how to 
solve it. It could be done in following way: bouth of packages provides some virtual functionality 
lets call it  rc-boot-automat. kernel requires rc-boot-automat, grub conflicts with rc-boot-lilo and
lilo conflicts with rc-boot-grub. Bot I don't really know if it is a good solution. 
   

I appreciate any comments.

Best Regards
Lukasz Dobrek

-- 
?ukasz Dobrek
Institut f?r Theoretische Physik
Appelstra?e 2, 30167 Hannover, Germany
e-mail:dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de
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From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May  4 12:36:46 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:36:46 +0200
Subject: rc-boot
In-Reply-To: <20010503212726.A27727@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de>; from dobrek@itp.uni-hannover.de on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:27:26PM +0200
References: <20010503212726.A27727@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20010504123646.A7225@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:27:26PM +0200, Lukas Dobrek wrote:
> 2. My idea is to provide two additional packages like rc-boot-grub and rc-boot-lilo. Each of them
>    contains the rc-boot script. They conflicts one with the other and one of them no metter 
>    which oneis required by kernel package. 
> 
> The problem is in dependences this what user should choose is
> the kind of bootloader and the rest should come from deps. And I don't really know how to 
> solve it. It could be done in following way: bouth of packages provides some virtual functionality 
> lets call it  rc-boot-automat. kernel requires rc-boot-automat, grub conflicts with rc-boot-lilo and
> lilo conflicts with rc-boot-grub. Bot I don't really know if it is a good solution. 

At the moment there are three packages:
rc-boot      -- req: rc-boot-loader
rc-boot-lilo \
rc-boot-grub / provides rc-boot-loader, req: rc-boot

This way kernel.spec will only need to require rc-boot.

There is problem with this, since when you're installing using
rpm kernel you will get requieres: rc-boot, that's ok, you do
rpm -Uvh rc-boot-0*, but then you get req: rc-boot-loader, and
this can be somewhat hard to figure out what to install. I guess
this can also lead wuch/poldek/apt to confusion (but I'm not sure).

So maybe better remove rc-boot, and leave only rc-boot-XXX.

Anyway I like 2 approach more.

Cheers
-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From wiget at pld.org.pl  Fri May  4 13:55:26 2001
From: wiget at pld.org.pl (Artur Frysiak)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:55:26 +0200
Subject: rc-boot
In-Reply-To: <20010504123646.A7225@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>; from malekith@pld.org.pl on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 12:36:46PM +0200
References: <20010503212726.A27727@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de> <20010504123646.A7225@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010504135526.D4658@free.buy.pl>

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 12:36:46PM +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> 
> At the moment there are three packages:
> rc-boot      -- req: rc-boot-loader
> rc-boot-lilo \
> rc-boot-grub / provides rc-boot-loader, req: rc-boot
> 

My 2 cents:
kernel req: bootloader
rc-boot-lilo req: lilo, rc-boot prov: bootloader
rc-boot-grub req: grub, rc-boot prov: bootloader
rc-boot *no*req bootloader!

lilo, grub *no*prov bootloader

No loop, no broken deps.
-- 
Artur Frysiak
http://www.pld.org.pl/


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May  4 14:11:33 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:11:33 +0200
Subject: rc-boot
In-Reply-To: <20010504135526.D4658@free.buy.pl>; from wiget@pld.org.pl on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 01:55:26PM +0200
References: <20010503212726.A27727@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de> <20010504123646.A7225@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010504135526.D4658@free.buy.pl>
Message-ID: <20010504141133.B8674@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 01:55:26PM +0200, Artur Frysiak wrote:
> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 12:36:46PM +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> > 
> > At the moment there are three packages:
> > rc-boot      -- req: rc-boot-loader
> > rc-boot-lilo \
> > rc-boot-grub / provides rc-boot-loader, req: rc-boot
> > 
> 
> My 2 cents:
> kernel req: bootloader
> rc-boot-lilo req: lilo, rc-boot prov: bootloader
> rc-boot-grub req: grub, rc-boot prov: bootloader
> rc-boot *no*req bootloader!
> 
> lilo, grub *no*prov bootloader
> 
> No loop, no broken deps.

Yes :> That's makes sense, since anybody who wants install kernel,
will have to install rc-boot-XXX, so it won't be common to 
have non-working rc-boot alone installed.

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de  Fri May  4 17:40:47 2001
From: dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de (Lukas Dobrek)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:40:47 +0200
Subject: rc-boot
In-Reply-To: <20010504135526.D4658@free.buy.pl>; from wiget@pld.org.pl on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 01:55:26PM +0200
References: <20010503212726.A27727@alya.itp.uni-hannover.de> <20010504123646.A7225@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010504135526.D4658@free.buy.pl>
Message-ID: <20010504174046.A31331@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 01:55:26PM +0200, Artur Frysiak wrote:
> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 12:36:46PM +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> > 
> > At the moment there are three packages:
> > rc-boot      -- req: rc-boot-loader
> > rc-boot-lilo \
> > rc-boot-grub / provides rc-boot-loader, req: rc-boot
> > 
> 
> My 2 cents:
> kernel req: bootloader
> rc-boot-lilo req: lilo, rc-boot prov: bootloader
> rc-boot-grub req: grub, rc-boot prov: bootloader
> rc-boot *no*req bootloader!
> 
> lilo, grub *no*prov bootloader
> 
> No loop, no broken deps.
I like it. Thanks. 

Best Regards
Lukasz

-- 
?ukasz Dobrek
Institut f?r Theoretische Physik
Appelstra?e 2, 30167 Hannover, Germany
e-mail:dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de
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From klakier at pld.org.pl  Sun May  6 14:08:01 2001
From: klakier at pld.org.pl (=?iso-8859-2?q?Rafa=B3?= Kleger-Rudomin)
Date: 06 May 2001 14:08:01 +0200
Subject: Info about apt, poldek and wuch added to pld-admin-manual
Message-ID: <m33dai4r4u.fsf@zolw.dom>


Hello,

I added few words about managing rpm packages with apt, poldek and
wuch to pld-admin-manual (CVS module 'doc').

Authors and fans of those programs are strongly encouraged to verify
this.

HTML-rendered version of 'doc' module is avaliable as usual on
http://www.pld.org.pl, in Documentation ( -> en -> PLD-admin-manual )

Regards,
Rafal

-- 
Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin (klakier at pld.org.pl)


From jajcus at bnet.pl  Tue May  8 12:54:27 2001
From: jajcus at bnet.pl (Jacek Konieczny)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:54:27 +0200
Subject: oidentd
Message-ID: <20010508125427.A22277@serwus.bnet.pl>

Hi,

Why is oidentd running as root by default in PLD?????
It can work as user ident/group proc without problems.

Greets,
	Jacek


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Thu May 10 12:04:56 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:04:56 +0200
Subject: packages groups
Message-ID: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

As you might know we (klakier + me) are working on non-interactive
(batch) installer for PLD. One can imagine, that one of most imporatant
parts of system installation is selecting packages. As there are >2k
packages in PLD, selecting them by hand is a bit hard (and boring).
So there is idea to divide packages into groups. It's important 
to understand how this groups are diffrent from RPM spec's Group: field.
For example: there are several shells but we don't want them all in
base. We also don't want installation group `shells'. Of course this
kind of selection is highly subjective, but hey! what's rpm -e for?

I will include list done so far here, so we can easly dicuss inclusion
of some packages, and layout of groups. I hope I'll get enough feedback
to construct final version of this list, as it is *required* to finish 
installer...


---------- CUT ---------
# syntax
#
# "*" (" ")* ( "1" | "0" ) (" ")* shortname (" ")* longname "\n"
#   this line describes packages group, shortname should contain just [a-z0-9_]+
#   1 is for default yes, 0 for no.
# package "\n"
#   simply package in group
# "!" package "\n"
#   optinal package (default yes)
# "@" (package (" ")* )+
#   select one of packages
# ("@!" | "!@") (package (" ")* )+
#   select one of packages or none
#
# NOTE: that '-' in shortname is not allowed. use '_'.
#
# example follows:

* 1 base Base packages
@lilo grub
@syslog syslog-ng
FHS
MAKEDEV
SysVinit
basesystem
bdflush
chkconfig
console-data
console-tools
cpio
cracklib
cracklib-dicts
db1
db3
dev
diffutils
e2fsprogs
file
fileutils
findutils
fix-info-dir
ftp
geninitrd
genromfs
gettext
glibc
grep
groff
gzip
iproute2
iputils
iputils-ping
issue
kernel
klogd
less
libcap
libpcap
libstdc++
libwrap
localedb-src
login
logrotate
losetup
mailx
make
mawk
mingetty
mktemp
modutils
mount
nc
net-tools
openssl
pam
pcre
pdksh
popt
procps
psmisc
rc-scripts
rpm
rpm-utils
sed
setserial
setup
sh-utils
shadow
sharutils
stat
tar
tcp_wrappers
tcpdump
telnet
terminfo
textutils
time
utempter
util-linux
vim-static
which
zlib

* 0 extras1 Not essential, but very often needed.
!apmd
!dhcpcd
bind-utils
bzip2
pinfo
info
man
man-pages
ncompress
open
readline
unzip
zip
mc
vim
vim-rt
slocate

* 0 devel_basic Basic programs needed for compilation.
glibc-devel
autoconf
automake
bison
cpp
!cproto
ctags
cvs
gcc
make
binutils
flex
gperf
kernel-headers
!gcc-c++
!objc
!gcc-objc
patch
diffutils
m4
cpp

* 0 devel_devel Packages needed for real development.
gdb
lcc
ElectricFence
ltrace
strace
!ddd
diffstat
doxygen
indent
nasm
!smalltalk

* 0 java Packages needed for JAVA development.
@ibm-java kaffe
jikes
!gcc-java

* 0 home_made_kernel Packages to build the kernel
kernel-sources
egcs
ncurses-devel
bin86

* 0 games_nox Textmode games
adom
bsd-games
fortune-mod
fortune-mod-bofh-excuses

* 0 games_svga Games for SVGAlib
linberto

* 0 games_x Games for X.
xbill
prboom
xpenguins
xsnow
bzflag

* 0 gnome_basic Basic part of GNOME
gnome-core
XXX

* 0 gnome_extras Addons for GNOME
!XXX
XXX

* 0 wmaker_basic Basic part of WindowMaker
WindowMaker

* 0 wmaker_extras Addons for WindowMaker
!XXX
XXX

# other: sgml/docbook stuff, x?emacs, server(ftp|http|??), gimp, xmms
# avi* [maybe not - licensing ...], MTA (has to be selected by user,
# when he selects Mutt, etc), IRC........
# +whatever you can imagine
---------- CUT ---------

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From gotar at priv0.onet.pl  Thu May 10 14:43:23 2001
From: gotar at priv0.onet.pl (GoTaR)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:43:23 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>; from malekith@pld.org.pl on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:04:56PM +0200
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl>

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:04:56 +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:

> * 1 base Base packages
[cut]
> console-data
> console-tools
[cut]

Now there is no console* packages - use kbd instead.

> * 0 extras1 Not essential, but very often needed.
> pinfo
> info

Well, isn't it almost the same?

> unzip
> zip

I would remove zip and add unrar.

-- 
GoTaR <gotar at priv0.onet.pl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:- a--- C UL+++>++++$ P+(++) L+++>++++$ E--- W-- N+ o? K w--- O?
M- V- PS++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5 X R- tv- b++>+++ DI- D+ G e>+++ h-- r++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Thu May 10 15:33:27 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:33:27 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl>; from gotar@priv0.onet.pl on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 02:43:23PM +0200
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl>
Message-ID: <20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 02:43:23PM +0200, GoTaR wrote:
> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:04:56 +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> 
> > * 1 base Base packages
> [cut]
> > console-data
> > console-tools
> [cut]
> 
> Now there is no console* packages - use kbd instead.

Ok. Fixed.

> > * 0 extras1 Not essential, but very often needed.
> > pinfo
> > info
> 
> Well, isn't it almost the same?

Droping info.

> > unzip
> > zip
> 
> I would remove zip and add unrar.

Ok. Who would use zip, when thera are tar and gzip :))

More feedback needed! What to add? More groups?

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From klakier at pld.org.pl  Thu May 10 15:59:56 2001
From: klakier at pld.org.pl (=?iso-8859-2?q?Rafa=B3?= Kleger-Rudomin)
Date: 10 May 2001 15:59:56 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
	<20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl>
	<20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <m3u22tmhib.fsf@zolw.dom>

Michal Moskal <malekith at pld.org.pl> writes:

> Droping info.

Info is traditional, pinfo should be an option IMHO

> > > unzip
> > > zip
> > 
> > I would remove zip and add unrar.
> 
> Ok. Who would use zip, when thera are tar and gzip :))

It is still very popular as a standard to distribute
platform-independent archives. It provides reasonable way to share
archives with Windows world.  Do not remove.

Rafal

-- 
Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin (klakier at pld.org.pl)


From blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl  Thu May 10 17:11:06 2001
From: blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl (Blues)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:11:06 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105101710360.19178-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>

On Thu, 10 May 2001, Michal Moskal wrote:
> More feedback needed! What to add? More groups?

icewm group

-- 
-------------------------
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski
-------------------------
Windows message:
"CPU not found. Software emulation"



From gotar at priv0.onet.pl  Thu May 10 21:37:03 2001
From: gotar at priv0.onet.pl (GoTaR)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:37:03 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <m3u22tmhib.fsf@zolw.dom>; from klakier@pld.org.pl on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 03:59:56PM +0200
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl> <20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <m3u22tmhib.fsf@zolw.dom>
Message-ID: <20010510213703.A83@priv0.onet.pl>

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 15:59:56 +0200, Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin wrote:

> It is still very popular as a standard to distribute
> platform-independent archives. It provides reasonable way to share
> archives with Windows world.  Do not remove.

I don't agree. WinZip(TM) understands .tar.gz format thus using zip
archives is, in my opinion, obsolete.

-- 
GoTaR <gotar at priv0.onet.pl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:- a--- C UL+++>++++$ P+(++) L+++>++++$ E--- W-- N+ o? K w--- O?
M- V- PS++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5 X R- tv- b++>+++ DI- D+ G e>+++ h-- r++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From klakier at pld.org.pl  Thu May 10 23:45:26 2001
From: klakier at pld.org.pl (=?iso-8859-2?q?Rafa=B3?= Kleger-Rudomin)
Date: 10 May 2001 23:45:26 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010510213703.A83@priv0.onet.pl>
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
	<20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl>
	<20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
	<m3u22tmhib.fsf@zolw.dom> <20010510213703.A83@priv0.onet.pl>
Message-ID: <m3eltwlvyh.fsf@zolw.dom>

GoTaR <gotar at priv.onet.pl> writes:

> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 15:59:56 +0200, Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin wrote:
> 
> > It is still very popular as a standard to distribute
> > platform-independent archives. It provides reasonable way to share
> > archives with Windows world.  Do not remove.
> 
> I don't agree. WinZip(TM) understands .tar.gz format thus using zip
> archives is, in my opinion, obsolete.

Nevertheless, much more programs understand old zip.

Anyway, I do not worry about interchanging files between two parties that could
agree on the file format (e.g. me and my Win friends) 

The problem is that a lot of files and software packages around net
are provided in zip already. For files distributed both for Win and
Unix users, old zip is common (and reasonable) choose to avoid
providing separate archives.

Regards,
Rafal

-- 
Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin (klakier at pld.org.pl)


From rafi at alpha.opm.pl  Fri May 11 08:28:46 2001
From: rafi at alpha.opm.pl (Rafal Cygnarowski)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 08:28:46 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105101710360.19178-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105110828280.1624-100000@rafal.pers.pl>

> icewm group
kde group either...

                                        
  rafa? 'pascalek' cygnarowski    .-------------------------------.
     mailto: rafi at pascal.pl       | Linux Registered User #160860 |
http://www.republika.pl/pascalek  `-------------------------------'


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May 11 12:14:49 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:14:49 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <m3eltwlvyh.fsf@zolw.dom>; from klakier@pld.org.pl on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:45:26PM +0200
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl> <20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <m3u22tmhib.fsf@zolw.dom> <20010510213703.A83@priv0.onet.pl> <m3eltwlvyh.fsf@zolw.dom>
Message-ID: <20010511121449.A10976@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:45:26PM +0200, Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin wrote:
> GoTaR <gotar at priv.onet.pl> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 15:59:56 +0200, Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin wrote:
> > 
> > > It is still very popular as a standard to distribute
> > > platform-independent archives. It provides reasonable way to share
> > > archives with Windows world.  Do not remove.
> > 
> > I don't agree. WinZip(TM) understands .tar.gz format thus using zip
> > archives is, in my opinion, obsolete.
> 
> Nevertheless, much more programs understand old zip.
> 
> Anyway, I do not worry about interchanging files between two parties that could
> agree on the file format (e.g. me and my Win friends) 
> 
> The problem is that a lot of files and software packages around net
> are provided in zip already. For files distributed both for Win and
> Unix users, old zip is common (and reasonable) choose to avoid
> providing separate archives.

So unzip is still there. And if one wants to create zip archives, 
he can install package. And for un* tools, it's very often unknown
when they are needed.

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May 11 12:17:04 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:17:04 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <m3u22tmhib.fsf@zolw.dom>; from klakier@pld.org.pl on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 03:59:56PM +0200
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl> <20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <m3u22tmhib.fsf@zolw.dom>
Message-ID: <20010511121704.B10976@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 03:59:56PM +0200, Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin wrote:
> Michal Moskal <malekith at pld.org.pl> writes:
> 
> > Droping info.
> 
> Info is traditional, pinfo should be an option IMHO

IMHO we should provide *better* packages by default, and *traditonal*
ones :) And pinfo is *much* better.

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May 11 12:19:27 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:19:27 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105101710360.19178-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>; from blues@ds6.pg.gda.pl on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 05:11:06PM +0200
References: <20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105101710360.19178-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <20010511121927.C10976@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 05:11:06PM +0200, Blues wrote:
> On Thu, 10 May 2001, Michal Moskal wrote:
> > More feedback needed! What to add? More groups?
> 
> icewm group

[add list of packages here] (i don't use icewm)

btw: groups file is in cvs://bootdisk/batch-installer/ui/data/groups
but if you have duobts about what packages should and what
shouldn't be included, post it here.

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May 11 12:19:55 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:19:55 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105110828280.1624-100000@rafal.pers.pl>; from rafi@alpha.opm.pl on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 08:28:46AM +0200
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105101710360.19178-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105110828280.1624-100000@rafal.pers.pl>
Message-ID: <20010511121955.D10976@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 08:28:46AM +0200, Rafal Cygnarowski wrote:
> > icewm group
> kde group either...

As I told to Blues, give packages list!

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From rafi at alpha.opm.pl  Fri May 11 12:38:09 2001
From: rafi at alpha.opm.pl (Rafal Cygnarowski)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:38:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010511121955.D10976@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111232210.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>

> As I told to Blues, give packages list!
kde*
qt*
kreatecd
kdevelop (?)
kdm
koffice*
konqueror*

and for future breathe:
kde-i18n*
kdegames*
kdegraphics*

of course without -devel and -static...
                                        
  rafa? 'pascalek' cygnarowski    .-------------------------------.
     mailto: rafi at pascal.pl       | Linux Registered User #160860 |
http://www.republika.pl/pascalek  `-------------------------------'


From rafi at alpha.opm.pl  Fri May 11 12:40:32 2001
From: rafi at alpha.opm.pl (Rafal Cygnarowski)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:40:32 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010511121449.A10976@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111238440.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>


> So unzip is still there. And if one wants to create zip archives, 
> he can install package. And for un* tools, it's very often unknown
> when they are needed.
Maybe just 'packers' group would be a good solution? It would contain
all of zips, arjs and rars at all...?

                                        
  rafa? 'pascalek' cygnarowski    .-------------------------------.
     mailto: rafi at pascal.pl       | Linux Registered User #160860 |
http://www.republika.pl/pascalek  `-------------------------------'


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May 11 13:21:32 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:21:32 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111232210.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>; from rafi@alpha.opm.pl on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 12:38:09PM +0200
References: <20010511121955.D10976@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111232210.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>
Message-ID: <20010511132132.A15740@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 12:38:09PM +0200, Rafal Cygnarowski wrote:
> > As I told to Blues, give packages list!
> kde*
> qt*
> kreatecd
> kdevelop (?)
> kdm
> koffice*
> konqueror*
> 
> and for future breathe:
> kde-i18n*
> kdegames*
> kdegraphics*
> 
> of course without -devel and -static...

those with '*' are base and other are optional?

kde-i18n, kdegames and kdegraphic for kde_extra?

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May 11 13:21:40 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:21:40 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111238440.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>; from rafi@alpha.opm.pl on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 12:40:32PM +0200
References: <20010511121449.A10976@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111238440.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>
Message-ID: <20010511132140.B15740@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 12:40:32PM +0200, Rafal Cygnarowski wrote:
> 
> > So unzip is still there. And if one wants to create zip archives, 
> > he can install package. And for un* tools, it's very often unknown
> > when they are needed.
> Maybe just 'packers' group would be a good solution? It would contain
> all of zips, arjs and rars at all...?

Done
-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From rafi at alpha.opm.pl  Fri May 11 14:23:40 2001
From: rafi at alpha.opm.pl (Rafal Cygnarowski)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 14:23:40 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010511132132.A15740@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111417180.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>

On Fri, 11 May 2001, Michal Moskal wrote:

> > kde*
> > qt*
> > kreatecd
> > kdevelop (?)
> > kdm
> > koffice*
> > konqueror*
> > 
> > and for future breathe:
> > kde-i18n*
> > kdegames*
> > kdegraphics*
> > 
> > of course without -devel and -static...
> 
> those with '*' are base and other are optional?
user should install at least kdebase kdelibs konqueror and qt
kreatecd, kdevelop and koffice should be option (IMVHO :)

> kde-i18n, kdegames and kdegraphic for kde_extra?
thouse packages were never build at all, they work properly and should be
included into distribution
kde-i18n* - contains internationalization for many languages - user should
            choose the proper one

kdegames and kdegraphics are on the same rights as eg. koffice....
 

                                        
  rafa? 'pascalek' cygnarowski    .-------------------------------.
     mailto: rafi at pascal.pl       | Linux Registered User #160860 |
http://www.republika.pl/pascalek  `-------------------------------'


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May 11 14:31:16 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 14:31:16 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111417180.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>; from rafi@alpha.opm.pl on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 02:23:40PM +0200
References: <20010511132132.A15740@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105111417180.4397-100000@rafal.pers.pl>
Message-ID: <20010511143116.A16240@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 02:23:40PM +0200, Rafal Cygnarowski wrote:
> On Fri, 11 May 2001, Michal Moskal wrote:
> 
> > > kde*
> > > qt*
> > > kreatecd
> > > kdevelop (?)
> > > kdm
> > > koffice*
> > > konqueror*
> > > 
> > > and for future breathe:
> > > kde-i18n*
> > > kdegames*
> > > kdegraphics*
> > > 
> > > of course without -devel and -static...
> > 
> > those with '*' are base and other are optional?
> user should install at least kdebase kdelibs konqueror and qt
> kreatecd, kdevelop and koffice should be option (IMVHO :)
> 
> > kde-i18n, kdegames and kdegraphic for kde_extra?
> thouse packages were never build at all, they work properly and should be
> included into distribution
> kde-i18n* - contains internationalization for many languages - user should
>             choose the proper one
> 
> kdegames and kdegraphics are on the same rights as eg. koffice....

Ok, please verify (feel free to change) in cvs
bootdisk/batch-installer/ui/data/groups.

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From gotar at priv0.onet.pl  Fri May 11 14:00:25 2001
From: gotar at priv0.onet.pl (GoTaR)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 14:00:25 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>; from malekith@pld.org.pl on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:04:56PM +0200
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010511140024.A426@priv0.onet.pl>

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:04:56 +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:

> ---------- CUT ---------
> # syntax
> #
> # "*" (" ")* ( "1" | "0" ) (" ")* shortname (" ")* longname "\n"
> #   this line describes packages group, shortname should contain just [a-z0-9_]+
> #   1 is for default yes, 0 for no.
> # package "\n"
> #   simply package in group
> # "!" package "\n"
> #   optinal package (default yes)
      optional

just typo...

> * 0 devel_devel Packages needed for real development.

Hmmm... maybe !colorgcc?

-- 
GoTaR <gotar at priv0.onet.pl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:- a--- C UL+++>++++$ P+(++) L+++>++++$ E--- W-- N+ o? K w--- O?
M- V- PS++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5 X R- tv- b++>+++ DI- D+ G e>+++ h-- r++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From gotar at priv0.onet.pl  Fri May 11 13:36:16 2001
From: gotar at priv0.onet.pl (GoTaR)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:36:16 +0200
Subject: packages groups
In-Reply-To: <m3eltwlvyh.fsf@zolw.dom>; from klakier@pld.org.pl on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:45:26PM +0200
References: <20010510120456.A29463@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010510144323.A10368@priv0.onet.pl> <20010510153327.A30862@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <m3u22tmhib.fsf@zolw.dom> <20010510213703.A83@priv0.onet.pl> <m3eltwlvyh.fsf@zolw.dom>
Message-ID: <20010511133616.A87@priv0.onet.pl>

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 23:45:26 +0200, Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin wrote:

> > I don't agree. WinZip(TM) understands .tar.gz format thus using zip
> > archives is, in my opinion, obsolete.
> 
> Nevertheless, much more programs understand old zip.

Hey and what about Intel(R) and it's compatibility politics!? 640KB
should be enough for everyone! A20 gate, fucked up memory architecture
on PC platfors... - these are examples of backward compatibility with
archaic issues...
Nevertheless ;> - ain't forget 'bout _traditional_ unices .Z archs;P

> Anyway, I do not worry about interchanging files between two parties that could
> agree on the file format (e.g. me and my Win friends) 

So what's the problem?

> The problem is that a lot of files and software packages around net
> are provided in zip already. For files distributed both for Win and
> Unix users, old zip is common (and reasonable) choose to avoid
> providing separate archives.

Yeah, so there is still unzip. We don't need to support creating such
archs and if one wants to do that (how many will!?) he still can install
apprioprate package.
On the gripping hand - ok, let's add zip, rar (I'm using it to share
files with dos comunity, probably many folks do), StarOffice (sharing
papers with win users), TeX (sharing papers with unix users) and many
many others - it's not strange, that most of the packages are being used
somwhere sometimes by someone, but it doesn't mean that we should add
all of them to the standard instalation. Much more people would use
avifile than zip and I think it's not groundless opinion.

cya

-- 
GoTaR <gotar at priv0.onet.pl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:- a--- C UL+++>++++$ P+(++) L+++>++++$ E--- W-- N+ o? K w--- O?
M- V- PS++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5 X R- tv- b++>+++ DI- D+ G e>+++ h-- r++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


From kura at cs.net.pl  Sat May 12 03:06:14 2001
From: kura at cs.net.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3?= Kuratczyk)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 03:06:14 +0200
Subject: PHP still sucks
Message-ID: <20010512030614.A7545@cs.net.pl>

Hi,

PHP-4.0.5-0.3 is still buggy. After installing php-imap apache does not
start. But, if one comments out "extension=imap.so" in /etc/php/php.ini,
run apache and then uncomment imap module and HUP apache... everything
works fine.

When apache dies, you can find this in error_log:
httpd: dl-close.c:119: _dl_close: Assertion `new_opencount[0] == 0' failed.

-- 
Micha? Kuratczyk <kura at cs.net.pl>


From alchemyx at uznam.net.pl  Mon May 14 16:05:00 2001
From: alchemyx at uznam.net.pl (Michal Margula)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:05:00 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514155156.A24349@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20010514160500.C3587@cerber.uznam.net.pl>

[poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):

> I already did it.  :)))
> But in this case there is no news. :((( 
> But lets wait a litle.

and maybe compaq? :) they give free accounts and have lots of spare
power to user, so maybe ...? :>

-- 
Micha? Margula, alchemyx at uznam.net.pl, ICQ UIN 12267440, +)
http://uznam.net.pl/~alchemyx/, administrator polskiej sekcji Linux Counter
"W ?yciu pi?kne s? tylko chwile" [Ryszard Riedel]


From dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de  Mon May 14 16:19:37 2001
From: dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de (Lukas Dobrek)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:19:37 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514160500.C3587@cerber.uznam.net.pl>; from alchemyx@uznam.net.pl on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:05:00PM +0200
References: <20010514155156.A24349@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de> <20010514160500.C3587@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010514161937.A25215@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:05:00PM +0200, Michal Margula wrote:
> [poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):
> 
> > I already did it.  :)))
> > But in this case there is no news. :((( 
> > But lets wait a litle.
> 
> and maybe compaq? :) they give free accounts and have lots of spare
> power to user, so maybe ...? :>
We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
axp users to work on the port.

Take Care
Lukasz
-- 
?ukasz Dobrek
Institut f?r Theoretische Physik
Appelstra?e 2, 30167 Hannover, Germany
e-mail:dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de
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From alchemyx at uznam.net.pl  Mon May 14 17:04:30 2001
From: alchemyx at uznam.net.pl (Michal Margula)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 17:04:30 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514161937.A25215@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20010514170429.A4229@cerber.uznam.net.pl>

[poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):

> We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> axp users to work on the port.

So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?

-- 
Micha? Margula, alchemyx at uznam.net.pl, ICQ UIN 12267440, +)
http://uznam.net.pl/~alchemyx/, administrator polskiej sekcji Linux Counter
"W ?yciu pi?kne s? tylko chwile" [Ryszard Riedel]


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Mon May 14 18:07:17 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:07:17 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514170429.A4229@cerber.uznam.net.pl>; from alchemyx@uznam.net.pl on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:04:30PM +0200
References: <20010514161937.A25215@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de> <20010514170429.A4229@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010514180717.A25792@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:04:30PM +0200, Michal Margula wrote:
> [poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):
> 
> > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> > axp users to work on the port.
> 
> So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?

Arm. PowerPC. mips. mips64?

AFAIK Atari|Amiga are quite dead and dog slow/expensive :<

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From alchemyx at uznam.net.pl  Mon May 14 18:18:27 2001
From: alchemyx at uznam.net.pl (Michal Margula)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:18:27 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514180717.A25792@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010514181827.A5301@cerber.uznam.net.pl>

[poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Michal Moskal napisa?(a):

> Arm. PowerPC. mips. mips64?
> 
> AFAIK Atari|Amiga are quite dead and dog slow/expensive :<

I will probably have opportunity to have an amiga at home, so why not?
;]

-- 
Micha? Margula, alchemyx at uznam.net.pl, ICQ UIN 12267440, +)
http://uznam.net.pl/~alchemyx/, administrator polskiej sekcji Linux Counter
"W ?yciu pi?kne s? tylko chwile" [Ryszard Riedel]


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Mon May 14 18:49:33 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:49:33 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514181827.A5301@cerber.uznam.net.pl>; from alchemyx@uznam.net.pl on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 06:18:27PM +0200
References: <20010514180717.A25792@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010514181827.A5301@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010514184933.A26003@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 06:18:27PM +0200, Michal Margula wrote:
> [poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Michal Moskal napisa?(a):
> 
> > Arm. PowerPC. mips. mips64?
> > 
> > AFAIK Atari|Amiga are quite dead and dog slow/expensive :<
> 
> I will probably have opportunity to have an amiga at home, so why not?
> ;]

What is it? 040? My friend had 68040/40 and it was, well, about
486/40... :<

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From kloczek at rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl  Tue May 15 01:09:27 2001
From: kloczek at rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Tomasz_K=B3oczko?=)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:09:27 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514170429.A4229@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105150056370.4345-100000@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Michal Margula wrote:

> [poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):
> 
> > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> > axp users to work on the port.
> 
> So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?

I try manage sparc but as in axp case we have to less users for work
effective.
After finish some installation suit and document moving procedure from for
example RH to PLD (seem we need some clear documentation for this - not
only on sparc but at all) I plan make announcment on ultralinux list.

kloczek
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
*Ludzie nie maj? problem?w, tylko sobie sami je stwarzaj?*
-----------------------------------------------------------
Tomasz K?oczko, sys adm @zie.pg.gda.pl|*e-mail: kloczek at rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl*


From wiget at pld.org.pl  Tue May 15 12:22:09 2001
From: wiget at pld.org.pl (Artur Frysiak)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:22:09 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105150056370.4345-100000@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105150056370.4345-100000@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <20010515122208.D29556@free.buy.pl>

On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 01:09:27AM +0200, Tomasz K?oczko wrote:
> On Mon, 14 May 2001, Michal Margula wrote:
> 
> > [poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):
> > 
> > > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> > > axp users to work on the port.
> > 
> > So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?
> 
> I try manage sparc but as in axp case we have to less users for work
> effective.
> After finish some installation suit and document moving procedure from for
> example RH to PLD (seem we need some clear documentation for this - not
> only on sparc but at all) I plan make announcment on ultralinux list.

Kernel packages for sparc and sparc64 are on ftp ?
-- 
Artur Frysiak
http://www.pld.org.pl/


From roman at student.ifpan.edu.pl  Wed May 16 11:13:25 2001
From: roman at student.ifpan.edu.pl (Roman Werpachowski)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:13:25 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010514170429.A4229@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105161113020.24331-100000@student.ifpan.edu.pl>

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Michal Margula wrote:

> [poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):
> 
> > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> > axp users to work on the port.
> 
> So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?

Please remember about Z80 (Sinclaire).

--

Roman Werpachowski


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Wed May 16 11:27:24 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:27:24 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105161113020.24331-100000@student.ifpan.edu.pl>; from roman@student.ifpan.edu.pl on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 11:13:25AM +0200
References: <20010514170429.A4229@cerber.uznam.net.pl> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105161113020.24331-100000@student.ifpan.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20010516112724.A27284@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 11:13:25AM +0200, Roman Werpachowski wrote:
> On Mon, 14 May 2001, Michal Margula wrote:
> 
> > [poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):
> > 
> > > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> > > axp users to work on the port.
> > 
> > So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?
> 
> Please remember about Z80 (Sinclaire).

ROTFL :)) Maybe intel 4004? :))

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From roman at student.ifpan.edu.pl  Wed May 16 14:30:54 2001
From: roman at student.ifpan.edu.pl (Roman Werpachowski)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:30:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010516112724.A27284@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105161430140.26126-100000@student.ifpan.edu.pl>

On Wed, 16 May 2001, Michal Moskal wrote:

> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 11:13:25AM +0200, Roman Werpachowski wrote:
> > On Mon, 14 May 2001, Michal Margula wrote:
> > 
> > > [poniedzia?ek, 14 maj 2001], Lukas Dobrek napisa?(a):
> > > 
> > > > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> > > > axp users to work on the port.
> > > 
> > > So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?
> > 
> > Please remember about Z80 (Sinclaire).
> 
> ROTFL :)) Maybe intel 4004? :))

Institute for Nuclear Research in ?wierk has a working PDP/11. Anybody
willing to sport a port?

--

Roman Werpachowski


From tomek at lj.pl  Wed May 16 16:10:08 2001
From: tomek at lj.pl (Tomasz Orzechowski)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:10:08 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105161113020.24331-100000@student.ifpan.edu.pl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105161113020.24331-100000@student.ifpan.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20010516161008.A4282@lj.pl>

On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 11:13:25AM +0200 Roman Werpachowski wrote:
>> > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
>> > axp users to work on the port.
>> 
>> So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?
>
>Please remember about Z80 (Sinclaire).

And what about C64/128? It's a bit faster than Z80...

-- 
Tomasz Orzechowski


From blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl  Wed May 16 16:42:44 2001
From: blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl (Blues)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:42:44 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010516161008.A4282@lj.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105161642050.24355-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>

On Wed, 16 May 2001, Tomasz Orzechowski wrote:
> >> > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> >> > axp users to work on the port.
> >> So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?
> >Please remember about Z80 (Sinclaire).
> And what about C64/128? It's a bit faster than Z80...

Well... C16/C116 would be usefull too...




P.S.: maybe EOT ? ;)
-- 
-------------------------
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski
-------------------------
Windows message:
"CPU not found. Software emulation"



From klakier at pld.org.pl  Wed May 16 17:40:51 2001
From: klakier at pld.org.pl (=?iso-8859-2?q?Rafa=B3?= Kleger-Rudomin)
Date: 16 May 2001 17:40:51 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105161642050.24355-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105161642050.24355-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <m3pud9l2t8.fsf@zolw.dom>

Blues <blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl> writes:

> On Wed, 16 May 2001, Tomasz Orzechowski wrote:
> > >> > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> > >> > axp users to work on the port.
> > >> So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?
> > >Please remember about Z80 (Sinclaire).
> > And what about C64/128? It's a bit faster than Z80...
> 
> Well... C16/C116 would be usefull too...

Hey guys, is it an attempt to write the history of computers, or what?
NTG a bit ;)

Rafal

-- 
Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin (klakier at pld.org.pl)


From alchemyx at uznam.net.pl  Wed May 16 23:49:19 2001
From: alchemyx at uznam.net.pl (Michal Margula)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 23:49:19 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105161642050.24355-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <20010516234919.B4084@cerber.uznam.net.pl>

[?roda, 16 maj 2001], Blues napisa?(a):

> > And what about C64/128? It's a bit faster than Z80...
> 
> Well... C16/C116 would be usefull too...

You're not funny at all :P. I was serious about Amiga port.

-- 
Micha? Margula, alchemyx at uznam.net.pl, ICQ UIN 12267440, +)
http://uznam.net.pl/~alchemyx/, administrator polskiej sekcji Linux Counter
"W ?yciu pi?kne s? tylko chwile" [Ryszard Riedel]


From misiek at pld.ORG.PL  Thu May 17 11:26:12 2001
From: misiek at pld.ORG.PL (Arkadiusz Miskiewicz)
Date: 17 May 2001 11:26:12 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010516234919.B4084@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
References: <20010516234919.B4084@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <87lmnwiax7.fsf@arm.t19.ds.pwr.wroc.pl>

Michal Margula <alchemyx at uznam.net.pl> writes:

> > > And what about C64/128? It's a bit faster than Z80...
> > Well... C16/C116 would be usefull too...
http://LNG.sourceforge.net

> I was serious about Amiga port.
Right now compilation time of some packages on Dual PIII 700MHz is few
hours. On standard Amiga it will take weeks but of course we can try ;-)

> Micha? Margula, alchemyx at uznam.net.pl, ICQ UIN 12267440, +)

-- 
Arkadiusz Mi?kiewicz, AM2-6BONE    [ PLD GNU/Linux IPv6 ]
http://www.t17.ds.pwr.wroc.pl/~misiek/ipv6/   [ enabled ]


From rafi at alpha.opm.pl  Thu May 17 11:46:53 2001
From: rafi at alpha.opm.pl (Rafal Cygnarowski)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 11:46:53 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <87lmnwiax7.fsf@arm.t19.ds.pwr.wroc.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171146250.1516-100000@rafal.pers.pl>


> > I was serious about Amiga port.
> Right now compilation time of some packages on Dual PIII 700MHz is few
> hours. On standard Amiga it will take weeks but of course we can try ;-)
what about cross-compiling?

                                        
  rafa? 'pascalek' cygnarowski    .-------------------------------.
     mailto: rafi at pascal.pl       | Linux Registered User #160860 |
http://www.republika.pl/pascalek  `-------------------------------'


From alchemyx at uznam.net.pl  Thu May 17 10:30:39 2001
From: alchemyx at uznam.net.pl (Michal Margula)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:30:39 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171146250.1516-100000@rafal.pers.pl>
Message-ID: <20010517103038.A1297@cerber.uznam.net.pl>

[czwartek, 17 maj 2001], Rafal Cygnarowski napisa?(a):

> 
> > > I was serious about Amiga port.
> > Right now compilation time of some packages on Dual PIII 700MHz is few
> > hours. On standard Amiga it will take weeks but of course we can try ;-)
> what about cross-compiling?

or compilation under uae runing on intel?

-- 
Micha? Margula, alchemyx at uznam.net.pl, ICQ UIN 12267440, +)
http://uznam.net.pl/~alchemyx/, administrator polskiej sekcji Linux Counter
"W ?yciu pi?kne s? tylko chwile" [Ryszard Riedel]


From rafi at alpha.opm.pl  Thu May 17 12:20:32 2001
From: rafi at alpha.opm.pl (Rafal Cygnarowski)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 12:20:32 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010517103038.A1297@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171219290.1516-100000@rafal.pers.pl>


> > > > I was serious about Amiga port.
> > > Right now compilation time of some packages on Dual PIII 700MHz is few
> > > hours. On standard Amiga it will take weeks but of course we can try ;-)
> > what about cross-compiling?
> 
> or compilation under uae runing on intel?
AFAIK uae is to slow, but maybe this would be a good solution for testing
linux installations ;)
                                        
  rafa? 'pascalek' cygnarowski    .-------------------------------.
     mailto: rafi at pascal.pl       | Linux Registered User #160860 |
http://www.republika.pl/pascalek  `-------------------------------'


From alchemyx at uznam.net.pl  Thu May 17 11:28:38 2001
From: alchemyx at uznam.net.pl (Michal Margula)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 11:28:38 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171219290.1516-100000@rafal.pers.pl>
Message-ID: <20010517112838.A3834@cerber.uznam.net.pl>

[czwartek, 17 maj 2001], Rafal Cygnarowski napisa?(a):

> AFAIK uae is to slow, but maybe this would be a good solution for testing
> linux installations ;)

uae doesn't work for me. checking why...

-- 
Micha? Margula, alchemyx at uznam.net.pl, ICQ UIN 12267440, +)
http://uznam.net.pl/~alchemyx/, administrator polskiej sekcji Linux Counter
"W ?yciu pi?kne s? tylko chwile" [Ryszard Riedel]


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Thu May 17 13:17:36 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 13:17:36 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171219290.1516-100000@rafal.pers.pl>; from rafi@alpha.opm.pl on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 12:20:32PM +0200
References: <20010517103038.A1297@cerber.uznam.net.pl> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171219290.1516-100000@rafal.pers.pl>
Message-ID: <20010517131736.A17944@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 12:20:32PM +0200, Rafal Cygnarowski wrote:
> 
> > > > > I was serious about Amiga port.
> > > > Right now compilation time of some packages on Dual PIII 700MHz is few
> > > > hours. On standard Amiga it will take weeks but of course we can try ;-)
> > > what about cross-compiling?
> > 
> > or compilation under uae runing on intel?
> AFAIK uae is to slow, but maybe this would be a good solution for testing
> linux installations ;)

Nope. One cannot install linux on uae :<
It doesn't have MMU afaik, but maybe there are some more
problems.

It isn't too slow though. JIT version is about 060/100 on
athalon 850.

Cross-compilation sounds better.


-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Thu May 17 13:19:31 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 13:19:31 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010517112838.A3834@cerber.uznam.net.pl>; from alchemyx@uznam.net.pl on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 11:28:38AM +0200
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171219290.1516-100000@rafal.pers.pl> <20010517112838.A3834@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010517131931.B17944@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 11:28:38AM +0200, Michal Margula wrote:
> [czwartek, 17 maj 2001], Rafal Cygnarowski napisa?(a):
> 
> > AFAIK uae is to slow, but maybe this would be a good solution for testing
> > linux installations ;)
> 
> uae doesn't work for me. checking why...

My friend has it working, best under DGA, JIT version.
Anyway, what amiga will you have? PowerPC? Regular m68k
are bit out of date now... :(

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From alchemyx at uznam.net.pl  Thu May 17 13:18:55 2001
From: alchemyx at uznam.net.pl (Michal Margula)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 13:18:55 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010517131736.A17944@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010517131855.A1356@cerber.uznam.net.pl>

[czwartek, 17 maj 2001], Michal Moskal napisa?(a):

> Nope. One cannot install linux on uae :<
> It doesn't have MMU afaik, but maybe there are some more
> problems.
> 
> It isn't too slow though. JIT version is about 060/100 on
> athalon 850.

ok. uae works fine for me. are you sure that uae doesn't emulate MMU?
anout amiga i could have - no idea about the model ;]

-- 
Micha? Margula, alchemyx at uznam.net.pl, ICQ UIN 12267440, +)
http://uznam.net.pl/~alchemyx/, administrator polskiej sekcji Linux Counter
"W ?yciu pi?kne s? tylko chwile" [Ryszard Riedel]


From agaran at agaran.6bone.pl  Thu May 17 15:23:34 2001
From: agaran at agaran.6bone.pl (Maciej 'Agaran' Pijanka)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:23:34 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010517131855.A1356@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171523210.27820-100000@kepler.agaran.6bone.pl>

On Thu, 17 May 2001, Michal Margula wrote:

> [czwartek, 17 maj 2001], Michal Moskal napisa?(a):
> 
> > Nope. One cannot install linux on uae :<
> > It doesn't have MMU afaik, but maybe there are some more
> > problems.
> > 
> > It isn't too slow though. JIT version is about 060/100 on
> > athalon 850.
> 
> ok. uae works fine for me. are you sure that uae doesn't emulate MMU?
> anout amiga i could have - no idea about the model ;]
> 
cpus after 68020 have mmu iirc
> 

-- 
Maciej 'Agaran' Pijanka <agaran at agaran.6bone.pl>
i386, Linux 2.2, Pine, Mutt, Slrn, Vi(m), IPv6, Gdb, 
I do not fear computers.  I fear the lack of them.
                -- Isaac Asimov


From blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl  Thu May 17 15:27:06 2001
From: blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl (Blues)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:27:06 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171523210.27820-100000@kepler.agaran.6bone.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105171526270.13956-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>

On Thu, 17 May 2001, Maciej 'Agaran' Pijanka wrote:
> > ok. uae works fine for me. are you sure that uae doesn't emulate MMU?
> > anout amiga i could have - no idea about the model ;]
> cpus after 68020 have mmu iirc

not all of them.
This one in A1200 doesn't have

-- 
-------------------------
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski
-------------------------
Windows message:
"CPU not found. Software emulation"



From agaran at agaran.6bone.pl  Thu May 17 15:30:56 2001
From: agaran at agaran.6bone.pl (Maciej 'Agaran' Pijanka)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:30:56 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105171526270.13956-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171530260.27820-100000@kepler.agaran.6bone.pl>

On Thu, 17 May 2001, Blues wrote:

> On Thu, 17 May 2001, Maciej 'Agaran' Pijanka wrote:
> > > ok. uae works fine for me. are you sure that uae doesn't emulate MMU?
> > > anout amiga i could have - no idea about the model ;]
> > cpus after 68020 have mmu iirc
> 
> not all of them.
> This one in A1200 doesn't have
> 

020 may not have every 030 has or something like that 

-- 
Maciej 'Agaran' Pijanka <agaran at agaran.6bone.pl>
i386, Linux 2.2, Pine, Mutt, Slrn, Vi(m), IPv6, Gdb, 
I do not fear computers.  I fear the lack of them.
                -- Isaac Asimov


From blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl  Thu May 17 15:43:54 2001
From: blues at ds6.pg.gda.pl (Blues)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:43:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105171530260.27820-100000@kepler.agaran.6bone.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0105171542590.14345-100000@piorun.ds.pg.gda.pl>

On Thu, 17 May 2001, Maciej 'Agaran' Pijanka wrote:
> > > > ok. uae works fine for me. are you sure that uae doesn't emulate MMU?
> > > > anout amiga i could have - no idea about the model ;]
> > > cpus after 68020 have mmu iirc
> > not all of them.
> > This one in A1200 doesn't have
> 020 may not have every 030 has or something like that

true.

this one from A1200 was signed 680EC20 (or something simitlar)

-- 
-------------------------
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski
-------------------------
Windows message:
"CPU not found. Software emulation"



From michuz at pld.org.pl  Thu May 17 22:51:28 2001
From: michuz at pld.org.pl (Michal Zawalich)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 22:51:28 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010517112838.A3834@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
References: <20010517112838.A3834@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010517225128.B2681@pldmachine>

[czwartek, 17 maj 2001], Michal Margula napisa?(a):
> > AFAIK uae is to slow, but maybe this would be a good solution for testing
> > linux installations ;)
> 
> uae doesn't work for me. checking why...
Maybe you need amiga ROM? Kickstart 3.1 works fine.

-- 
   +-------------------+    hacker - [...] 3. Osoba b?d?ca w stanie docenic 
  @|  Micha? Zawalich  |@   warto?? hacka. [...]
 /-| michuz at pld.org.pl |-\                      ["Nowy S?ownik Hackerstwa" - 
/| +-------------------+ |\                     Eric S. Raymond, kompilator]


From roman at student.ifpan.edu.pl  Fri May 18 08:56:04 2001
From: roman at student.ifpan.edu.pl (Roman Werpachowski)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 08:56:04 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010516161008.A4282@lj.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0105180855530.24803-100000@student.ifpan.edu.pl>

On Wed, 16 May 2001, Tomasz Orzechowski wrote:

> On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 11:13:25AM +0200 Roman Werpachowski wrote:
> >> > We have enought power on axp. I have 4 axp maschines. We have to less
> >> > axp users to work on the port.
> >> 
> >> So what arch left? Motorola-based (Ataris, Amigas?) and sparcs?
> >
> >Please remember about Z80 (Sinclaire).
> 
> And what about C64/128? It's a bit faster than Z80...

Oh really?

--

Roman Werpachowski


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Fri May 18 10:54:48 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:54:48 +0200
Subject: Just for information
In-Reply-To: <20010517131855.A1356@cerber.uznam.net.pl>; from alchemyx@uznam.net.pl on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 01:18:55PM +0200
References: <20010517131736.A17944@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010517131855.A1356@cerber.uznam.net.pl>
Message-ID: <20010518105448.A31233@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 01:18:55PM +0200, Michal Margula wrote:
> [czwartek, 17 maj 2001], Michal Moskal napisa?(a):
> 
> > Nope. One cannot install linux on uae :<
> > It doesn't have MMU afaik, but maybe there are some more
> > problems.
> > 
> > It isn't too slow though. JIT version is about 060/100 on
> > athalon 850.
> 
> ok. uae works fine for me. are you sure that uae doesn't emulate MMU?
> anout amiga i could have - no idea about the model ;]

I'm not sure about MMU. But 4 sure one cannot run Linux in UAE.
(it's written somewhere in docs for UAE)
-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Mon May 21 12:00:38 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:00:38 +0200
Subject: Ideas about =?iso-8859-2?Q?metaconfigurati?=
	=?iso-8859-2?B?b24gdG9vbCAocHJverEp?=
Message-ID: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

Hello,

Background.

About a month ago there was an discussion about metaconfiguaration
tool on pld-installer@ list. As this problem is only paritally
connected to installer, I think this list is better place to
discuss it.

What is it?

The idea is, to some extent, generalization of rc-inted and
rc-root projects. The goal is to provide unified way of system
configuaration. I.e. it doesn't matter what inetd, finger or
bootloader program you use, you configure them all the same way.
Rc-{boot,inetd} was designed for this purpouse too, but I guess
the main reason was to provide way of spliting configuration into
several files, so they can be easly updated using rpm packages. Of
course metaconfigurator will support all this, but eventaully also
much more.

A quick look into /etc can reveal two facts. 1) each program
uses it's own config file syntax.2) config files are in 95+%
made from default values.  The second fact is in general true for
all systems. However, when you're running mail system for 10000+
users, your configs for [insert-your-favorite-MTA-here] will be,
let's say, in 50% default.  However, you'll still use 99% defaults
in your sshd or fingerd configuration.

Whay several configuation formats are evil? 1) becouse it takes
time to learn the particular syntax. 2) becouse one config files
cannot use values from the other -- it's really a pitty. 3) it's
a bit hard to validate it, before actuall program that use it is run.

Unify config files into [something]? Why [something] is XML? 

Using XML has several advantages, and also disadvatanges. As
everybody knows and loves shell :), scripts for translating
metaconfigs will be possibly written in sh. So why not use format
similar to rc-{boot,inetd} uses?

1) it's kinds incompatybile with languages other then sh. You maight
say it's easy to parse NAME="value" pairs in any languge, but one may
want to use . for includes, variables expansion and so on in config
file. While this ain't a problem in sh, it will be hard to interpret
it in C or perl. 

2) more important: it doesn't allow easy section nesting, and
keeping namespace clean. 

3) it's hard to validate.

Of course, XML is a bit harder to use from inside shell then using
shell from shell :^) However it's not all that bad. The idea is to
provide command, that can be used from shell, to interpret XML. It
would be something about:

xml-parse /etc/rc-inetd.xml/rc-inetd/defaults

for /etc/rc-inetd.xml file containing:

<rc-inetd>
 <defaults>
  <max-connections>10</max-connections>
  <timeout>10s</timeout>
  <foo></foo>
  <date>
   <day>10</day>
   <month>jan</month>
  </date>
 </defaults>
 <services>
  <!-- ... -->
 </services>
</rc-inetd>

would output:

max_connections="10"
timeout="10s"
foo=""
date="<day>10</day>
   <month>jan</month>"
date_day="10"
date_month="jan"

Now you do 

eval `xml-parse /etc/rc-inetd.xml/rc-inetd/defaults`

and have shell variables set. Of course xml-parse utility needs to be
written, but it's not hard.

For easy spliting of config files we can intermix pathes in filesystem
with pathes in XML. However this needs rethink.

Using XML has several advantages:

1) we can write DTD or XML-Schema (maybe better XML-Schema) for /etc,
   and validate it.
2) there are several tools available for validating/editing XML
   (including the most powerful: vi :^)
3) writing frontend will be rather simple.
4) middle-advanced user can think out values for most variables, just
   by reading empty XML file (names are very descriptive), or in case
   of failure, by reading XML-Schema.
5) it seems to be quite modern solution


Wow, great, but what's the cost?

1) it's not all that simple. XML provides several complications
   on its own. I.e. special tool is needed for parsing from shell,
   libraries from C and so on. OTOH simple configuration file parser
   can be written ad hoc in half an hour -- that's why programs doesn't
   like XML for configuration much.
2) it will take a lot of time to create config translation scripts.
3) some ppl doesn't like XML, but like da'old good config files...


Finally end:

Few notes: while it's easy provable, that any config file can be
expressed in XML, but it could be somewhat hard, especially in the
beggining, to transfer entire sendmail config file, and to make xml
layout compatibile with e.g. postfix. So, first we should concentrate
our efforts in providing basic config files functionality (e.g. to set
the hostname, aliases, rely), leaving special and/or rarly used features 
of particular program for later. Note that one can make <mta><postfix>
section for features, which cannot be found in any other MTA, xml
guratnees that there will be no namespace clash. When one is running
mail system for 10k+ users, he will write config files for MTA
himself anyway, but he can still use xml configs for fingerd. 

In the begging there could be need to do some reverse engeenering, to
generate xml configs from /etc/sysconfig (e.g. for conversion, and
until programs using it are changed).

There was an idea to use some templates (from Pawelk) or simple
macro processing (from Klakier) to generate config files. While I agree
this can be part of system, it's not enough. Some programs are configured
by running shell commands, other have they configuration files split
across several files, up to qmail's one-variable <-> one-file approach.
It would be hard to use simple templates here.

Ok, waiting for flames :)


-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From s.zagrodzki at mimuw.edu.pl  Mon May 21 14:09:47 2001
From: s.zagrodzki at mimuw.edu.pl (Sebastian Zagrodzki)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:09:47 +0200
Subject: Ideas about =?iso-8859-2?Q?metaconfigu?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?ration_tool_=28proz=B1=29?=
In-Reply-To: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>; from malekith@pld.org.pl on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:00:38PM +0200
References: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010521140947.B29303@sokrates.mimuw.edu.pl>

On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:00:38PM +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> <rc-inetd>
...
> </rc-inetd>
...
> Ok, waiting for flames :)

%post
/bin/regedit < rc-inetd.reg

? ;))

-- 
Sebastian Zagrodzki			s.zagrodzki at mimuw.edu.pl
UIN 1770835				http://sokrates.mimuw.edu.pl/~zagrodzki

A co mnie obchodzi, co pomy?l? inni...


From dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de  Mon May 21 15:02:26 2001
From: dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de (Lukas Dobrek)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:02:26 +0200
Subject: Ideas about metaconfiguration tool (proz?)
In-Reply-To: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>; from malekith@pld.org.pl on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:00:38PM +0200
References: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010521150226.A14576@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>

On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:00:38PM +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Background.
> 
> About a month ago there was an discussion about metaconfiguaration
> tool on pld-installer@ list. As this problem is only paritally
> connected to installer, I think this list is better place to
> discuss it.
> 
> What is it?
> 
> The idea is, to some extent, generalization of rc-inted and
> rc-root projects. The goal is to provide unified way of system
> configuaration. I.e. it doesn't matter what inetd, finger or
> bootloader program you use, you configure them all the same way.
> Rc-{boot,inetd} was designed for this purpouse too, but I guess
> the main reason was to provide way of spliting configuration into
> several files, so they can be easly updated using rpm packages. Of
> course metaconfigurator will support all this, but eventaully also
> much more.
I want to say on the very begining that in my opinion it is useless. 
But it does't mean that we cannot do that. I see it as a kind of intelectual 
chalange. In this circumstances I want to go for everything. No 
half solutions. 

So let me try to expres my idea. 

The shell sucks becouse it is to simple. Seting the variables 
as SOMETHING=dupa.salata is not suficient. For a very simple reason
It can happend that the script will have to check a lot of conditions 
concerning this varible.  Shell is not a good language for that.
We have three levels. Config file of the program ex: (/etc/inetd.conf;
/etc/passwd) We have the metaconfig file which is easy to write for a user.
Like /etc/sysconfig/rc-inetd/*. 
The purpose of your previous letter was to discus should we use shell or XML. 
I know we should't use shell. I don't know things about XML but let me give 
an example. Supose we are writing config file for rc-boot.

This is the metaconfig file with desciption of an booting procedure for Linux.

TYPE=LINUX
ROOT=/dev/hda2
KERNEL=/boot/kernel-3.4.7-22.gz
INITRD=/boot/initrd
VGA=0x317
APPEND="video=atyfb:1024x768,font=SUN12x22"

The config file is /etc/lilo.conf or /boot/grub/menu.lst (just for
information).

Ok it is cleari, easy to write and simple. But I would like to have also 
something like this somewhere. 

<varible> 
TYPE
<posible_valuess>
<val>LINUX</val><val>WINDA</val><val>bsd</val><val>dupa</val>
<error>
Sorry but there is no such OS.
<error>
<error LANG=pl>
Nie ma takiego systemu baranie.
<error LANG=pl>
</posible_valuess>
</verible>

This was simple lets go further.
<varible>
ROOT
<posible_valuess>
<file>/dev/hd*</file><file>/dev/sd*</file> and so on
<posible_valuess>
<error>
Error number 19897FFFGASY^^^$$$#$%%%@@@
<error>
</varible>
 
Then I am doing 
metaconfig --validate /etc/sysconfig/rc-boot/image/Linux-3.4.7-22
And I have the result ok or not ok.:)) 

Obviously parsing <file>dupa</file>  is something diferent then
<val>dupa</val>. One can check if this file exist if it is non empty,
If it has the write permition or whatever.

For instance 
<file perms=0600 owner=root group=root>
/etc/lilo.conf
</file>

Could be used as a rule for defining varible DEFAULT_LILO_CONFIG_FILE 
used in one of the rc-boot config files. 

I don't know if this is a good idea. I don't know how difficoult it is
to write. In case of rc-boot I tryed to add 
some validation of config file. But without big success, it is 
damn hard in shell.

But it looks it is posible to do. This whould be only one tool,
independet from the others. Something to validate the metaconfig files. 
The next thing is to create the real config files. But when we know it
has sense. 

Unfortunatly it is not as easy as it look like. There can be some more
sofisticated conditions for varibles. And this I don't know how to write 
using XML but probably there is a posibility.

This idea have also one posible advantege if somebody would like to
write a grafical tool for managing this metaconfiguration files. 
The XML files 
with definitions of varibles can by very easly parsed and converted into 
some FUI  or whatever. 

The rest is to convert this metafiles into real configfiles. This is
also not easy. But I really thing that for user it is easyer to write
VAR=bzzzzz then to write XML. The goal of metaconfigurator is to do
something smart with this. 

What do you thing about it?

Take Care
 The Lord of the Darknes 
     Lukasz      Dobrek 

-- 
?ukasz Dobrek
Institut f?r Theoretische Physik
Appelstra?e 2, 30167 Hannover, Germany
e-mail:dobrek at itp.uni-hannover.de
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From wiget at pld.org.pl  Mon May 21 15:54:36 2001
From: wiget at pld.org.pl (Artur Frysiak)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:54:36 +0200
Subject: Ideas about metaconfiguration tool (proz?)
In-Reply-To: <20010521150226.A14576@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>
References: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org> <20010521150226.A14576@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20010521155435.D22723@free.buy.pl>

On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 03:02:26PM +0200, Lukas Dobrek wrote:

> Ok it is cleari, easy to write and simple. But I would like to have also 
> something like this somewhere. 
> 
> <varible> 
> TYPE
> <posible_valuess>
> <val>LINUX</val><val>WINDA</val><val>bsd</val><val>dupa</val>
> <error>
> Sorry but there is no such OS.
> <error>
> <error LANG=pl>
> Nie ma takiego systemu baranie.
> <error LANG=pl>
> </posible_valuess>
> </verible>
> 
> This was simple lets go further.
> <varible>
> ROOT
> <posible_valuess>
> <file>/dev/hd*</file><file>/dev/sd*</file> and so on
> <posible_valuess>
> <error>
> Error number 19897FFFGASY^^^$$$#$%%%@@@
> <error>
> </varible>
>  
> Then I am doing 
> metaconfig --validate /etc/sysconfig/rc-boot/image/Linux-3.4.7-22
> And I have the result ok or not ok.:)) 

This look like XML Scheme :-)

-- 
Artur Frysiak
http://www.pld.org.pl/
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From malekith at pld.org.pl  Mon May 21 15:59:19 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:59:19 +0200
Subject: Ideas about =?iso-8859-2?Q?metaconfigu?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?ration_tool_=28proz=B1=29?=
In-Reply-To: <20010521140947.B29303@sokrates.mimuw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20010521155919.A8283@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 02:09:47PM +0200, Sebastian Zagrodzki wrote:
> On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:00:38PM +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> > <rc-inetd>
> ...
> > </rc-inetd>
> ...
> > Ok, waiting for flames :)
> 
> %post
> /bin/regedit < rc-inetd.reg

Oh, well. This wasn't exactly the kind of flames I expected...

Anyway, this is not supposed to work this way (some tool for editing
global xml files). Files will be still split. I.e. everything as it was,
but they will be in XML.

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From klakier at pld.org.pl  Mon May 21 16:00:18 2001
From: klakier at pld.org.pl (=?iso-8859-2?q?Rafa=B3?= Kleger-Rudomin)
Date: 21 May 2001 16:00:18 +0200
Subject: Ideas about metaconfiguration tool =?iso-8859-2?q?(proz=B1)?=
In-Reply-To: <20010521140947.B29303@sokrates.mimuw.edu.pl>
References: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
	<20010521140947.B29303@sokrates.mimuw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <m3vgmug5u5.fsf@zolw.dom>

Sebastian Zagrodzki <s.zagrodzki at mimuw.edu.pl> writes:

> On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:00:38PM +0200, Michal Moskal wrote:
> > <rc-inetd>
> ...
> > </rc-inetd>
> ...
> > Ok, waiting for flames :)
> 
> %post
> /bin/regedit < rc-inetd.reg
> 
> ? ;))

:)
There are some differences, please consider:

1) configs will not be stored in single file (or I missed some point?)
2) XML files are plain text
3) XML is open standard
4) moving configs to XML is not so original idea nowadays 
   (e.g. some gnome programs, XML based gconf system)

Regards,
Rafal

-- 
Rafa? Kleger-Rudomin (klakier at pld.org.pl)


From malekith at pld.org.pl  Mon May 21 18:06:06 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:06:06 +0200
Subject: Ideas about metaconfiguration tool (proz?)
In-Reply-To: <20010521150226.A14576@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <20010521180606.C8801@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 03:02:26PM +0200, Lukas Dobrek wrote:
> This is the metaconfig file with desciption of an booting procedure for Linux.
> 
> TYPE=LINUX
> ROOT=/dev/hda2
> KERNEL=/boot/kernel-3.4.7-22.gz
> INITRD=/boot/initrd
> VGA=0x317
> APPEND="video=atyfb:1024x768,font=SUN12x22"
> 
> The config file is /etc/lilo.conf or /boot/grub/menu.lst (just for
> information).
> 
> Ok it is cleari, easy to write and simple. But I would like to have also 
> something like this somewhere. 
> 
> <varible> 
> TYPE
> <posible_valuess>
> <val>LINUX</val><val>WINDA</val><val>bsd</val><val>dupa</val>
> <error>
> Sorry but there is no such OS.
> <error>
> <error LANG=pl>
> Nie ma takiego systemu baranie.
> <error LANG=pl>
> </posible_valuess>
> </verible>

As Wiget pointed out: it's much like XML-Schama... So there are (will
be?) tools ready for this kind of validation. However they validate
XML, not Name=value pairs. There are two parts of meteconfigurator work:
one is to validate meta.config -- this can be done using XML-Schama/DTD,
but only if config file is in XML, the second is to generate sth.conf.
Shell would be good here I guess.

I see why you like Name=value way more then XML. It seems clearer. But
it's only first sight... I guess much problems can arise when dealing
with more complicated config files, especially when we want to put lot
of information in the same file. OTOH:

<image>
 <type>LINUX</type>
 <root>/dev/hda2</root>
 <kernel>/boot/kernel-3.4.7-22.gz</kernel>
 <initrd>/boot/initrd</initrd>
 <vga>0x317</vga>
 <append>video=atyfb:1024x768,font=SUN12x22</append>
</image>

is not all that hard to write. After turning some syntax highlight on,
it even looks clear. And writing tools to modify XML is nowadays much
easier then writing tools to modify name=value pairs...

-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From bonkey at pld.org.pl  Mon May 21 18:25:58 2001
From: bonkey at pld.org.pl (Daniel 'bonkey' Bauke)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:25:58 +0200
Subject: Ideas about =?iso-8859-2?Q?metaconfigu?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?ration_tool_=28proz=B1=29?=
In-Reply-To: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>; from malekith@pld.org.pl on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:00:38PM +0200
References: <20010521120038.A9865@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010521182558.A736@sokrates.mimuw.edu.pl>

poniedzia?ek, 21. maj. Michal Moskal pisze:

> Ok, waiting for flames :)
some flash thoughts, pls not offend.

nice to see it already working and working good. bad to hear
disaster prophecy.

idea is not bad. but i'm using current configs and i see no
problems. the cheapest parser for me i am by myself.

so, old bore's standard questions: who will do it? when? how
good? how it influence on stability, performance etc? is
development of current packages so boring that we have to invent
flying carptes?

-- 
Daniel `bonkey' Bauke; http://www.oho.pl/~bonkey/; {happiness=bike&&unix;}


From pawelk at pld.org.pl  Wed May 23 00:44:34 2001
From: pawelk at pld.org.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3_Ko=B3odziej?=)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 00:44:34 +0200
Subject: Ideas about metaconfiguration tool (proz?)
In-Reply-To: <20010521180606.C8801@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>; from malekith@pld.org.pl on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:06:06PM +0200
References: <20010521150226.A14576@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de> <20010521180606.C8801@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>
Message-ID: <20010523004434.A3217@paw.dom>

Dnia Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:06:06PM +0200, Michal Moskal napisa?(a):
> On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 03:02:26PM +0200, Lukas Dobrek wrote:
> > This is the metaconfig file with desciption of an booting procedure for Linux.
> > 
> > TYPE=LINUX
> > ROOT=/dev/hda2
> > KERNEL=/boot/kernel-3.4.7-22.gz
> > INITRD=/boot/initrd
> > VGA=0x317
> > APPEND="video=atyfb:1024x768,font=SUN12x22"
> > 
> > The config file is /etc/lilo.conf or /boot/grub/menu.lst (just for
> > information).
> > 
> > Ok it is cleari, easy to write and simple. But I would like to have also 
> > something like this somewhere. 
> > 
> > <varible> 
> > TYPE
> > <posible_valuess>
> > <val>LINUX</val><val>WINDA</val><val>bsd</val><val>dupa</val>
> > <error>
> > Sorry but there is no such OS.
> > <error>
> > <error LANG=pl>
> > Nie ma takiego systemu baranie.
> > <error LANG=pl>
> > </posible_valuess>
> > </verible>
> 
> As Wiget pointed out: it's much like XML-Schama... So there are (will
> be?) tools ready for this kind of validation. However they validate
> XML, not Name=value pairs. There are two parts of meteconfigurator work:
> one is to validate meta.config -- this can be done using XML-Schama/DTD,
> but only if config file is in XML, the second is to generate sth.conf.
> Shell would be good here I guess.

Oh. shell. hmm.. It's said that everything is posible to do using only
XML and scotch tape. So why to use sh? Maybe XSLT will be beter (there are
already some tools for it :)

Small example:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ file lilo.xml:
<image type="linux">
        <kernel>/boot/mykernel</kernel>
        <label>PLD Linux</label>
        <root>/dev/hda2</root>
        <initrd>/boot/by</initrd>
</image>

<image type="win">
        <root>/dev/null</root>
        <label>windows</label>
        <table>/dev/hda</table>
</image>

</boot>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ file: lilo.xsl:

<xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform"
                version="1.0"
                xmlns:xt="http://www.jclark.com/xt"
                extension-element-prefixes="xt">


<xsl:output method="text"/>

<xsl:template match="/boot">
	<xsl:apply-templates/>
#end of generated lilo.conf
	
</xsl:template>

<xsl:template match="image">
	<xsl:variable name="type"><xsl:value-of select="@type"/></xsl:variable>
	<xsl:choose>
		<xsl:when test='@type="linux"'>
			
			<xsl:apply-templates select="kernel"/>
			<xsl:apply-templates select="root"/>
			<xsl:apply-templates select="label"/>
			<xsl:apply-templates select="initrd"/>
		</xsl:when>
		<xsl:when test='@type="win"'>
			<xsl:apply-templates select="root"/>
			<xsl:apply-templates select="label"/>
			<xsl:apply-templates select="table"/>
		</xsl:when>
	</xsl:choose>
</xsl:template>

<xsl:template match="kernel">
image=<xsl:value-of select="text()"/>
</xsl:template>
<xsl:template match="root">
	<xsl:if test='../@type="linux"'>
	root=<xsl:value-of select="text()"/>
	</xsl:if>
	<xsl:if test='../@type="win"'>
other=<xsl:value-of select="text()"/>
	</xsl:if>
</xsl:template>

<xsl:template match="label">
	label=<xsl:value-of select="text()"/>
</xsl:template>

<xsl:template match="table">
	table=<xsl:value-of select="text()"/>
</xsl:template>


<xsl:template match="initrd">
	initrd=<xsl:value-of select="text()"/>
</xsl:template>

</xsl:stylesheet>
		
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And then:
[pawel at paw ~/PLD/my]%  java com.jclark.xsl.sax.Driver lilo.xml lilo.xsl lilo.conf && cat lilo.conf


image=/boot/mykernel
        root=/dev/hda2
        label=PLD Linux
        initrd=/boot/by


other=/dev/null
        label=windows
        table=/dev/hda


#end of generated lilo.conf

You have to downland xt.zip and xs.zip from http://www.jclark.com/xml/xt.html
extract it and put xt.jar and xs.jar on your CLASSPATH first.
Only one disadventage of above is that parser and converter is written in
java.
Adventages:
1) xtpl seams to be simply (Above is my first xsl (I have been learning how to
   write it for a hour))
2) xtpl seams to be powerful. 

Maybe there is some xtpl written in C/C++ ?


-- 
Pawe? Ko?odziej 
pawelk at pld.org.pl 


From wrobell at posexperts.com.pl  Wed May 23 08:42:44 2001
From: wrobell at posexperts.com.pl (wrobell)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:42:44 +0200
Subject: Ideas about metaconfiguration tool (proz?)
In-Reply-To: <20010523004434.A3217@paw.dom>
Message-ID: <20010523084244.A5948@pred.posexperts.com.pl>

On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:44:34AM +0200, Pawe? Ko?odziej wrote:
[...]
> Maybe there is some xtpl written in C/C++ ?
sablotron
xslt

Both in our cvs repository.

  wrobell <wrobell at posexperts.com.pl>
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From malekith at pld.org.pl  Wed May 23 10:30:18 2001
From: malekith at pld.org.pl (Michal Moskal)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:30:18 +0200
Subject: Ideas about metaconfiguration tool (proz?)
In-Reply-To: <20010523004434.A3217@paw.dom>
Message-ID: <20010523103018.B2089@aleph-0.aleph-0.dhs.org>

On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:44:34AM +0200, Pawe? Ko?odziej wrote:
> Oh. shell. hmm.. It's said that everything is posible to do using only
> XML and scotch tape. So why to use sh? Maybe XSLT will be beter (there are
> already some tools for it :)

I agree this can be good (maybe even great :) idea. But I'm affraid that 
some shell will be still nessesery. Some programs are confiured using 
shell commands. But we can make shell script using xsl.


-- 
: Michal ``,/\/\,       '' Moskal    | |            : GCS {C,UL}++++$
:          |    |alekith      @    |)|(| . org . pl : {E--, W, w-,M}-
:                                  |                : {b,e>+}++ !tv h
: Current project:  http://aleph-0.dhs.org/ywindow/ : PLD Team member


From jajcus at pld.org.pl  Tue May 29 16:30:24 2001
From: jajcus at pld.org.pl (Jacek Konieczny)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:30:24 +0200
Subject: Bug in qmail (brobably IPv6)!
Message-ID: <20010529163024.A3948@nic.nigdzie>

On a host without IPv6 I am getting following error when trying to deliver
 a message to domain "bnet.pl". It seems it is because the domain has 
as its primary MX both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.

delivery 1: deferral: System_resources_temporarily_unavailable._(#4.3.0)/

Because of that I (and other users of such domain) probably didn't receive
a lot of important messages from our qmail's users.

Could someone who has prepared the patch check it?

Greets,
        Jacek


From jajcus at pld.org.pl  Tue May 29 17:10:56 2001
From: jajcus at pld.org.pl (Jacek Konieczny)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 17:10:56 +0200
Subject: Bug in qmail (now for sure in IPv6)!
In-Reply-To: <20010529163024.A3948@nic.nigdzie>; from jajcus@pld.org.pl on Tue, May 29, 2001 at 04:30:24PM +0200
References: <20010529163024.A3948@nic.nigdzie>
Message-ID: <20010529171056.A13894@nic.nigdzie>

On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 04:30:24PM +0200, Jacek Konieczny wrote:
> On a host without IPv6 I am getting following error when trying to deliver
>  a message to domain "bnet.pl". It seems it is because the domain has 
> as its primary MX both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.
> 
> delivery 1: deferral: System_resources_temporarily_unavailable._(#4.3.0)/
> 
After compiling qmail without IPv6 (all other patches aplied) it works
well. So it is the IPv6 patch which breaks qmail.

Greets,
        Jacek