From glen at pld-linux.org  Tue Dec  1 09:00:43 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-1?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:00:43 +0200
Subject: packages: adapter - use less only if terminal is to short
In-Reply-To: <packages_adapter.1.40@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_adapter.1.39@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_adapter.1.40@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <200912011000.43774.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Tuesday 01 December 2009 04:39:48 sparky wrote:
> +showdiff()
> +{
> +???????l=$(cat $1 | wc -l)
local $l maybe?

> +???????eval $(resize) # get terminal size

resize is x11/xorg dep, and can be missing on some systems.

use stty size instead:
set -- $(stty size)

> +???????if [ $l -gt $LINES ]; then
> +???????????????diffcol $1 | less -r
> +???????else
> +???????????????diffcol $1
> +???????fi
> +}

why you just don't set "less -E" ?

and rather set it privately in $LESS, as i personally do expect the "q" to be 
input, and if sometimes it's not input, the "q" might go to wrong place.

-- 
glen


From gotar at polanet.pl  Tue Dec  1 10:57:50 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:57:50 +0100
Subject: packages: adapter - use less only if terminal is to short
In-Reply-To: <200912011000.43774.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_adapter.1.39@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_adapter.1.40@pld-linux.org>
	<200912011000.43774.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091201095750.GA5774@polanet.pl>

On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 10:00:43 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

>> +???????????????diffcol $1 | less -r
>> +???????else
>> +???????????????diffcol $1
> 
> why you just don't set "less -E" ?

less -FR

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From sparky at pld-linux.org  Tue Dec  1 11:15:39 2009
From: sparky at pld-linux.org (Przemyslaw Iskra)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:15:39 +0100
Subject: packages: adapter - use less only if terminal is to short
In-Reply-To: <200912011000.43774.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_adapter.1.39@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_adapter.1.40@pld-linux.org>
	<200912011000.43774.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091201101539.GA25306@pld-linux.org>

On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 10:00:43AM +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
> On Tuesday 01 December 2009 04:39:48 sparky wrote:

> resize is x11/xorg dep, and can be missing on some systems.
> 
> use stty size instead:
> set -- $(stty size)
> 
> > +???????if [ $l -gt $LINES ]; then
> > +???????????????diffcol $1 | less -r
> > +???????else
> > +???????????????diffcol $1
> > +???????fi
> > +}
> 
> why you just don't set "less -E" ?
> 
> and rather set it privately in $LESS, as i personally do expect the "q" to be 
> input, and if sometimes it's not input, the "q" might go to wrong place.

oh, soosh.

I personally consider very annoying not being able to see what I'm
accepting -- there are terminals, like gnome-terminal, which switch
buffers for normal and ncurses-based operation, so after I exit less, or
it exists for me (in case of -E or -F), I'm unnable to see the text
anymore.
Having to press "q" is annoying as well.
And lines to long for the terminal get very messy.

So I added PAGER variable, less -r is the default unless you have it
predefined in your environment.

$ cat ~/.adapterrc 
PAGER="cat"


-- 
 ____  Sparky{PI] -- Przemyslaw _  ___  _  _  ........... LANG...Pl..Ca..Es..En
/____) ___  ___  _ _ || Iskra  |  | _ \| |  | : WWW........ppcrcd.pld-linux.org
\____\| -_)'___| ||^'||//\\// <   |  _/| |  | : JID......sparky<at>jabberes.org
(____/||   (_-_|_||  ||\\ ||   |_ |_|  |_| _| : Mail....sparky<at>pld-linux.org


From gotar at polanet.pl  Tue Dec  1 20:22:50 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:22:50 +0100
Subject: packages: adapter - use less only if terminal is to short
In-Reply-To: <20091201101539.GA25306@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_adapter.1.39@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_adapter.1.40@pld-linux.org>
	<200912011000.43774.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091201101539.GA25306@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091201192250.GB5538@polanet.pl>

On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 11:15:39 +0100, Przemyslaw Iskra wrote:

> I personally consider very annoying not being able to see what I'm
> accepting -- there are terminals, like gnome-terminal, which switch
> buffers for normal and ncurses-based operation, so after I exit less, or
> it exists for me (in case of -E or -F), I'm unnable to see the text
> anymore.

-FX

> Having to press "q" is annoying as well.
> And lines to long for the terminal get very messy.

Old good school would say: man less

> So I added PAGER variable, less -r is the default unless you have it
> predefined in your environment.
> 
> $ cat ~/.adapterrc 
> PAGER="cat"

So did you mean simple 'less -FXR'?

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 09:36:27 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:36:27 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202074143.1d7e1541@work.int.webworx.pl>
	<200912020845.37932@wojtosz> <20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 08:51:23 +0100, Tomasz Pala wrote:

>>> > /usr/sbin/httpd.prefork: symbol lookup
>>> > error: /usr/lib/php/eaccelerator.so: undefined symbol:
>>> > php_session_register_module
>>> 
>>> Doinstaluj php-session. Teraz wszystko jest w osobnych modu?ach.
>> 
>> Te? si? na to naci??em. Czy nie mo?na by wstawi? php-session do listy 
>> sugerowanych ?
> 
> Osoba, kt?ra wydzieli?a modu?, powinna zadba? o odpowiednie R tam, gdzie
> jest to niezb?dne, czyli webapps (jak phpPgAdmin ju? dodany, phpMyAdmin
> kt?ry raczej potrzebuje, squirrelmail itp. setka innych pakiet?w, w tym
> tak?e eaccelerator).

As the author of PHP changes that made shared pcre/spl/session
you are welcome to do consecutive changes, i.e. adding missing R: php(X)
to webapps. I'd like to help and prepared a list of webapps using
session_*() I'm using: cacti mediawiki netmrg phpMyAdmin phpwiki
postfixadmin squirrelmail stacks-wiki.

Also I see you're the one who send php with these changes to upgrade, so
please send all the fixed packages as well (don't forget about already
fixed phpPgAdmin).

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From glen at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 10:24:30 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:24:30 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 10:36:27 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 08:51:23 +0100, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> >>> > /usr/sbin/httpd.prefork: symbol lookup
> >>> > error: /usr/lib/php/eaccelerator.so: undefined symbol:
> >>> > php_session_register_module
> >>>
> >>> Doinstaluj php-session. Teraz wszystko jest w osobnych modu?ach.
> >>
> >> Te? si? na to naci??em. Czy nie mo?na by wstawi? php-session do listy
> >> sugerowanych ?
> >
> > Osoba, kt?ra wydzieli?a modu?, powinna zadba? o odpowiednie R tam, gdzie
> > jest to niezb?dne, czyli webapps (jak phpPgAdmin ju? dodany, phpMyAdmin
> > kt?ry raczej potrzebuje, squirrelmail itp. setka innych pakiet?w, w tym
> > tak?e eaccelerator).
>
> As the author of PHP changes that made shared pcre/spl/session
> you are welcome to do consecutive changes, i.e. adding missing R: php(X)
> to webapps. I'd like to help and prepared a list of webapps using
> session_*() I'm using: cacti mediawiki netmrg phpMyAdmin phpwiki
> postfixadmin squirrelmail stacks-wiki.
>
> Also I see you're the one who send php with these changes to upgrade, so
> please send all the fixed packages as well (don't forget about already
> fixed phpPgAdmin).

you're writing of yourself in third tense?

what is this letter about?

everybody is welcome to fix packages and stbr them to builders, there's 
even !stbr bot on irc for really everyone(?).

-- 
glen


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 10:32:30 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:32:30 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:24:30 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

> you're writing of yourself in third tense?
> 
> what is this letter about?

About broken PHP. Not by me.

> everybody is welcome to fix packages and stbr them to builders, there's 
> even !stbr bot on irc for really everyone(?).

There are already two votes to revert your change. I can do THAT. I
won't fix dozen of packages YOU have broken.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From wojciech at blaszkowski.com  Wed Dec  2 10:38:56 2009
From: wojciech at blaszkowski.com (Wojciech =?iso-8859-2?q?B=B3aszkowski?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:38:56 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <200912021038.56925@wojtosz>

Dnia ?roda 02 grudzie? 2009, Elan Ruusam?e napisa?:
> > >>> > /usr/sbin/httpd.prefork: symbol lookup
> > >>> > error: /usr/lib/php/eaccelerator.so: undefined symbol:
> > >>> > php_session_register_module
> > >>>
> > >>> Doinstaluj php-session. Teraz wszystko jest w osobnych modu?ach.
> > >>
> > >> Te? si? na to naci??em. Czy nie mo?na by wstawi? php-session do listy
> > >> sugerowanych ?
> > >
> > > Osoba, kt?ra wydzieli?a modu?, powinna zadba? o odpowiednie R tam,
> > > gdzie jest to niezb?dne, czyli webapps (jak phpPgAdmin ju? dodany,
> > > phpMyAdmin kt?ry raczej potrzebuje, squirrelmail itp. setka innych
> > > pakiet?w, w tym tak?e eaccelerator).
> >
> > As the author of PHP changes that made shared pcre/spl/session
> > you are welcome to do consecutive changes, i.e. adding missing R: php(X)
> > to webapps. I'd like to help and prepared a list of webapps using
> > session_*() I'm using: cacti mediawiki netmrg phpMyAdmin phpwiki
> > postfixadmin squirrelmail stacks-wiki.
> >
> > Also I see you're the one who send php with these changes to upgrade, so
> > please send all the fixed packages as well (don't forget about already
> > fixed phpPgAdmin).
> 
> you're writing of yourself in third tense?

Welcome to Poland ;-)

> what is this letter about?

There is REALY a lots of packages / scripts / what_ever wich requres session. 
IMO excluding session to single package is NOT a good idea.
 
> everybody is welcome to fix packages and stbr them to builders, there's 
> even !stbr bot on irc for really everyone(?).

But why ?

-1 for php-session

-- 
Pozdrawiam, Best regards, Mit freundlichen Gr??en,

Wojciech "Wojtosz" B?aszkowski
www.blaszkowski.com
GSM: +48 600 197 207
JID: wojtosz at jabber.biz.pl


From blues at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 10:39:10 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:39:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=E6_aktualnego_pcre=2C_problem_z_php-eaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> > you're writing of yourself in third tense? what is this letter about?
> 
> About broken PHP. Not by me.
> 
> > everybody is welcome to fix packages and stbr them to builders, there's 
> > even !stbr bot on irc for really everyone(?).
> 
> There are already two votes to revert your change.

The only mistake here is requires missing. php-common should require 
packeges that are in separate modules now. For few months, to satisfy 
existing instalations. After that is could be suggest only, if any.

package spliting itself is ok, IMO.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 10:45:50 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:45:50 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 10:39:10 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:

> The only mistake here is requires missing.

...in how many packages? I can't even count them. Do any of you have and
idea how to match those apps?

> php-common should require 
> packeges that are in separate modules now.

So what's the point of sharing it?

> For few months, to satisfy 
> existing instalations. After that is could be suggest only, if any.

Of course - if Someone(TM) fixes all the packages. But apparently he's
not going to. And it's broken NOW not in few months.

> package spliting itself is ok, IMO.

I don't really care if it's shared or not. I do care about working apps.
The one who broke them and fellowship he gathers should do that BEFORE
STBR.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 10:51:30 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:51:30 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 10:45:50 +0100, Tomasz Pala wrote:

>> package spliting itself is ok, IMO.
> 
> I don't really care if it's shared or not. I do care about working apps.
> The one who broke them and fellowship he gathers should do that BEFORE
> STBR.

Although it definitely is bad idea. Let me repeat from -pl: I don't know
a single installation not using sessions and so limited in resources
that it makes a difference. Give me just one justification other than
"let's split everything we can, ONLY BECAUSE WE CAN".

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From glen at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 10:54:13 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:54:13 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
Message-ID: <200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 11:38:56 Wojciech B?aszkowski wrote:
> ;-)
>
> > what is this letter about?
>
> There is REALY a lots of packages / scripts / what_ever wich requres
> session. IMO excluding session to single package is NOT a good idea.

goal is to write down deps in pkgs. too bad original spec developer didn't 
care writing down requirements. these are usually written in README files, 
etc.

welcome to pld...

so are packages broken with sense of requiring exact apache modules they use. 
and they still are since 2.0 split each module. nobody is in care to fix 
those.

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 10:55:06 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-1?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:55:06 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?utf-8?q?wymaga=C4=87_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912021155.06557.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 11:45:50 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> > The only mistake here is requires missing.
>
> ...in how many packages? I can't even count them. Do any of you have and
> idea how to match those apps?

SOA.

there's been only one bugreport with missing symbols. and that bug is now 
fixed.

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 10:56:27 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-15?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:56:27 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?utf-8?q?wymaga=C4=87_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <200912021156.28020.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 11:39:10 Pawel Golaszewski wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> > > you're writing of yourself in third tense? what is this letter about?
> >
> > About broken PHP. Not by me.
> >
> > > everybody is welcome to fix packages and stbr them to builders, there's
> > > even !stbr bot on irc for really everyone(?).
> >
> > There are already two votes to revert your change.
>
> The only mistake here is requires missing. php-common should require
> packeges that are in separate modules now. For few months, to satisfy
> existing instalations. After that is could be suggest only, if any.
>
> package spliting itself is ok, IMO.

deps should be fixed in packages that are broken.

and php is not sent to main, so all is in a way pld operates.

welcome to pld!

-- 
glen


From michal at michal.waw.pl  Wed Dec  2 10:59:45 2009
From: michal at michal.waw.pl (Michal Kochanowicz)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:59:45 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021156.28020.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<200912021156.28020.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091202095945.GA3424@woland.michal.waw.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:56:27AM +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
> and php is not sent to main, so all is in a way pld operates.

It is in main.

-- 
--= Michal Kochanowicz =--==--==BOFH==--==--= michal at michal.waw.pl =--
--= finger me for PGP public key or visit http://michal.waw.pl/PGP =--
--==--==--==--==--==-- Vodka. Connecting people.--==--==--==--==--==--
A chodzenie po g?rach SSIE!!!


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 11:01:00 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:01:00 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021155.06557.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<200912021155.06557.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091202100100.GC11978@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:55:06 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

> there's been only one bugreport with missing symbols. and that bug is now 
> fixed.

So please consider my initial mail as bugreport - list of packages
missing R:php(session). Some of them probably miss php(pcre) too,
ENOTIME to check, ENOTIME to rel++, ENOTIME to STBR and I really have
more interesting things to do than enumerating every single file some
packages require. It's dumb, that's all.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 11:08:35 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:08:35 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091202100835.GD11978@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:54:13 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

> goal is to write down deps in pkgs. too bad original spec developer didn't 
> care writing down requirements. these are usually written in README files, 

You're kidding? Maybe we should enumerate such things like glibc or FHS
too, in case someone in future has a brilliant idea and splits something?

> welcome to pld...

...you made it.

> so are packages broken with sense of requiring exact apache modules they use. 
> and they still are since 2.0 split each module. nobody is in care to fix 
> those.

Maybe it was stupid too.

Do you volunteer to KEEP track of exact PHP Rs? Because it's virtually
impossible to maintain such Rs during package upgrades.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 11:10:18 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:10:18 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021156.28020.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<200912021156.28020.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091202101018.GE11978@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:56:27 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

> deps should be fixed in packages that are broken.
> 
> and php is not sent to main, so all is in a way pld operates.
> 
> welcome to pld!

Please, don't break something and mock about it.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From patrys at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 11:11:35 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:11:35 +0100
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=C4=87_aktualnego_pcre=2C_p?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?roblem_z_php=2Deaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <20091202100835.GD11978@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org> <200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202100835.GD11978@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912020211p5f290b8ejcf20f17d8b70ea4d@mail.gmail.com>

2009/12/2 Tomasz Pala <gotar at polanet.pl>:
> Do you volunteer to KEEP track of exact PHP Rs? Because it's virtually
> impossible to maintain such Rs during package upgrades.

Uhm, it's packager's job to make sure software actually works.
Otherwise we could replace everyone with a short perl script that just
bump the version to the latest stable.

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From glen at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 11:14:17 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:14:17 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912021214.17812.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 10:36:27 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> As the author of PHP changes that made shared pcre/spl/session
> you are welcome to do consecutive changes, i.e. adding missing R: php(X)
> to webapps. I'd like to help and prepared a list of webapps using
> session_*() I'm using: cacti mediawiki netmrg phpMyAdmin phpwiki
> postfixadmin squirrelmail stacks-wiki.

the list changes added and STBR'ed. 

ps: and it it all took 18 minutes, not whole day... (and before you start fury 
on the 18 minutes, ask yourself how much time you spent heating the stove on 
this thread)

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 11:18:14 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:18:14 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202100835.GD11978@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202100835.GD11978@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912021218.14469.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 12:08:35 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:54:13 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
> > goal is to write down deps in pkgs. too bad original spec developer
> > didn't care writing down requirements. these are usually written in
> > README files,
>
> You're kidding? Maybe we should enumerate such things like glibc or FHS
> too, in case someone in future has a brilliant idea and splits something?

glibc is enumerated.

you're welcome to write php autodep generator.

there's some unfinished work done @ 
http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/SOURCES.old/rpm-php-requires.php

-- 
glen


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 11:21:37 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:21:37 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912020211p5f290b8ejcf20f17d8b70ea4d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202100835.GD11978@polanet.pl>
	<89b6ba3a0912020211p5f290b8ejcf20f17d8b70ea4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091202102137.GF11978@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:11:35 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:

>> Do you volunteer to KEEP track of exact PHP Rs? Because it's virtually
>> impossible to maintain such Rs during package upgrades.
> 
> Uhm, it's packager's job to make sure software actually works.

It will work for anyone who has working _environment_ (yes, IMHO missing
php-session is flawned env). People are not unerring and I doubt anyone
removes all his packages in order to track every single R. And I'm sure
noone reads sources or diff against previous version to track changes.

Separating core modules without any reason creates only another Point Of
Failure. That's an error in terms of engineering.

> Otherwise we could replace everyone with a short perl script that just
> bump the version to the latest stable.

That's the way it is done for many packages I've seen.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 11:37:39 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:37:39 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021214.17812.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021214.17812.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091202103739.GA28205@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 12:14:17 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

> the list changes added and STBR'ed. 

Thnx.

> ps: and it it all took 18 minutes, not whole day... (and before you start fury 
> on the 18 minutes, ask yourself how much time you spent heating the stove on 
> this thread)

Unfortunately:
1. the list obviously wasn't complete nor trustworthy, it was simple grep - did you
check if they really require session? Maybe some of them just S...
2. Did you check them for PCRE?
3. How about the rest of webapps?
4. Why squirrelmail has php(session) and phpMyAdmin php-session? [*]
5. What's the point? (question still not answered)

And it's not about 18 minutes (add 11 minutes it took ME to enumerate
them here, it's half an hour), but about the rules. Rules on influencing
other packages without fixing them and logical sense of some actions.


* in fact I know why, but I'm not sure what happens in some future
  splits/renaming/whatever.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 11:40:47 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:40:47 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021218.14469.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202100835.GD11978@polanet.pl>
	<200912021218.14469.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091202104047.GB28205@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 12:18:14 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

> glibc is enumerated.
> 
> you're welcome to write php autodep generator.

One more (it was included in polish part):

>>> > error: /usr/lib/php/eaccelerator.so: undefined symbol:
>>> > php_session_register_module

I don't know if it would be autogenerated or not, maybe STBR is enough.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From blues at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 11:47:49 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:47:49 +0100 (CET)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=E6_aktualnego_pcre=2C_problem_z_php-eaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl> <20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> >> package spliting itself is ok, IMO.
> > I don't really care if it's shared or not. I do care about working 
> > apps. The one who broke them and fellowship he gathers should do that 
> > BEFORE STBR.
> 
> Although it definitely is bad idea. Let me repeat from -pl: I don't know
> a single installation not using sessions

I do. Not only one.

> and so limited in resources that it makes a difference.

It makes difference with apache in memory usage.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 11:51:15 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:51:15 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:47:49 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:

>> Although it definitely is bad idea. Let me repeat from -pl: I don't know
>> a single installation not using sessions
> 
> I do. Not only one.

What's the traffic volume?

>> and so limited in resources that it makes a difference.
> 
> It makes difference with apache in memory usage.

What's the footprint?

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From blues at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 11:56:32 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:56:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=E6_aktualnego_pcre=2C_problem_z_php-eaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl> <20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> >> Although it definitely is bad idea. Let me repeat from -pl: I don't 
> >> know a single installation not using sessions
> > I do. Not only one.
> What's the traffic volume?

2 of them - minimal
2 of them - big.

> >> and so limited in resources that it makes a difference.
> > It makes difference with apache in memory usage.
> What's the footprint?

I didn't checked but every php module loaded causes memory usage increase 
of each apache process. Crazy but it's the way apache works.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From patrys at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 12:00:37 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:00:37 +0100
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=C4=87_aktualnego_pcre=2C_p?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?roblem_z_php=2Deaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912020300u2b211d45re59f200ca1dc4899@mail.gmail.com>

2009/12/2 Pawel Golaszewski <blues at pld-linux.org>:
> I didn't checked but every php module loaded causes memory usage increase
> of each apache process. Crazy but it's the way apache works.

You mean "crazy but it's the way apache-mod_php works". Use CGI/FCGI
and your problems go away.

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From blues at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 12:04:35 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:04:35 +0100 (CET)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=E6_aktualnego_pcre=2C_problem_z_php-eaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912020300u2b211d45re59f200ca1dc4899@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<89b6ba3a0912020300u2b211d45re59f200ca1dc4899@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021202490.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
> > I didn't checked but every php module loaded causes memory usage 
> > increase of each apache process. Crazy but it's the way apache works.
> You mean "crazy but it's the way apache-mod_php works". Use CGI/FCGI and 
> your problems go away.

remove mod_php then :P

But you should care about memory footprint on each php process under 
CGI/FCGI too, esp. under high loads.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 12:05:59 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:05:59 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <20091202110559.GB979@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:56:32 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:

>> What's the traffic volume?
> 
> 2 of them - big.
> 
>> >> and so limited in resources that it makes a difference.
>> > It makes difference with apache in memory usage.
>> What's the footprint?
> 
> I didn't checked but every php module loaded causes memory usage increase 
> of each apache process. Crazy but it's the way apache works.

If you have big traffic you shouldn't use PHP as apache module at all
(as already patrys said). Well, you shouldn't use apache;)

If you have huge traffic you shouldn't even use PLD packages. Do you
know what's the memory footprint and performance loss when using
everything as modules?

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 12:08:22 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:08:22 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021202490.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<89b6ba3a0912020300u2b211d45re59f200ca1dc4899@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021202490.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <20091202110822.GC979@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 12:04:35 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:

> But you should care about memory footprint on each php process under 
> CGI/FCGI too, esp. under high loads.

But why your memory is more important than mine?
I'd risk a statement that there's more PHP-enabled high-load web servers
with sessions than without.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From blues at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 12:15:36 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:15:36 +0100 (CET)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=E6_aktualnego_pcre=2C_problem_z_php-eaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <20091202110559.GB979@polanet.pl>
References: <20091202075123.GA2653@polanet.pl>
	<20091202083627.GB2653@polanet.pl>
	<200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202110559.GB979@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021209410.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> >> What's the traffic volume?
> > 2 of them - big.
> >> >> and so limited in resources that it makes a difference.
> >> > It makes difference with apache in memory usage.
> >> What's the footprint?
> > I didn't checked but every php module loaded causes memory usage 
> > increase of each apache process. Crazy but it's the way apache works.
> If you have big traffic you shouldn't use PHP as apache module at all 
> (as already patrys said). Well, you shouldn't use apache;) If you have 
> huge traffic you shouldn't even use PLD packages. Do you know what's the 
> memory footprint and performance loss when using everything as modules?

Come on - I don't want to argue. You asked, I anwered (these particular 
systems are not mine).

There are arguments to make these modules as separate ones.
OTOH "I don't know any systems that don't use session" isn't anything 
significant. You can talk about any module like that...

Make performance, memory tests and proof that it's not the right 
direction.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From glen at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 12:21:30 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:21:30 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202103739.GA28205@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021214.17812.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202103739.GA28205@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912021321.30362.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 12:37:39 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> 2. Did you check them for PCRE?

looked, but had no proofs, so did no actions.

and pcre was separate pkg in <= 5.1 eras, so it has higher chance being 
listed, but in fact even if it was separate pkg, it being listed in R was 
low.

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 12:22:33 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:22:33 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202103739.GA28205@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021214.17812.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202103739.GA28205@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912021322.33183.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 12:37:39 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> 4. Why squirrelmail has php(session) and phpMyAdmin php-session? [*]

php(pcre) notes php4 or php5 virtual.

php-pcre notes: php5 only.
php4-pcre notes: php4 only.

-- 
glen


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 12:26:22 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:26:22 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021209410.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202110559.GB979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021209410.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <20091202112622.GD979@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 12:15:36 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:

>> >> What's the footprint?
>> > I didn't checked but every php module loaded causes memory usage 
>> > increase of each apache process. Crazy but it's the way apache works.
[...]
> There are arguments to make these modules as separate ones.

Yes, memory overhead...

> OTOH "I don't know any systems that don't use session" isn't anything 
> significant. You can talk about any module like that...

But there are only a few I can't imagine PHP without. What can do large
PHP traffic without sessions?

> Make performance, memory tests and proof that it's not the right 
> direction.

...now please step back and read first paragraph.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 12:30:40 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:30:40 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021322.33183.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021214.17812.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202103739.GA28205@polanet.pl>
	<200912021322.33183.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091202113040.GE979@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 13:22:33 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

>> 4. Why squirrelmail has php(session) and phpMyAdmin php-session? [*]
                                                                    ^^^
> php(pcre) notes php4 or php5 virtual.
> 
> php-pcre notes: php5 only.
> php4-pcre notes: php4 only.

There were footnote to read;)

I wonder what's going to happen when PHP 6.0 arises. Would package
maintainers (means who?) review all the Rs, or we use some dumb 'perl
script' to update them?

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From blues at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 12:51:54 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:51:54 +0100 (CET)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=E6_aktualnego_pcre=2C_problem_z_php-eaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <20091202112622.GD979@polanet.pl>
References: <200912021124.30892.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202110559.GB979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021209410.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202112622.GD979@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021247330.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> >> >> What's the footprint?
> >> > I didn't checked but every php module loaded causes memory usage 
> >> > increase of each apache process. Crazy but it's the way apache works.
> [...]
> > There are arguments to make these modules as separate ones.
> Yes, memory overhead...
> > OTOH "I don't know any systems that don't use session" isn't anything 
> > significant. You can talk about any module like that...
> But there are only a few I can't imagine PHP without. What can do large 
> PHP traffic without sessions?

A lot of things can be done without sessions. Don't think about webpage in 
internet only. php can do much more things...

> > Make performance, memory tests and proof that it's not the right 
> > direction.
> ...now please step back and read first paragraph.

It exists. Dunno how big - 10-200kB?.
But this way we could end with one-big-php-lib because "each module is 
unsignificant".

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From wojciech at blaszkowski.com  Wed Dec  2 13:00:39 2009
From: wojciech at blaszkowski.com (Wojciech =?iso-8859-2?q?B=B3aszkowski?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:00:39 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <200912021300.39788@wojtosz>

Dnia ?roda 02 grudzie? 2009, Elan Ruusam?e napisa?:
> > There is REALY a lots of packages / scripts / what_ever wich requres
> > session. IMO excluding session to single package is NOT a good idea.
> 
> goal is to write down deps in pkgs. too bad original spec developer didn't 
> care writing down requirements. these are usually written in README files, 
> etc.
> 
> welcome to pld...
> 
> so are packages broken with sense of requiring exact apache modules they
>  use.  and they still are since 2.0 split each module. nobody is in care to
>  fix those.

Oh, com on glen.. Just revert that change and every thing will be back to 
normal. We do NOT have to split everything just because we can.

-- 
Pozdrawiam, Best regards, Mit freundlichen Gr??en,

Wojciech "Wojtosz" B?aszkowski
www.blaszkowski.com
GSM: +48 600 197 207
JID: wojtosz at jabber.biz.pl


From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec  2 13:07:46 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:07:46 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021247330.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202094550.GA11978@polanet.pl>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202110559.GB979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021209410.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202112622.GD979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021247330.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <20091202120746.GF979@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 12:51:54 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:

>> But there are only a few I can't imagine PHP without. What can do large 
>> PHP traffic without sessions?
> 
> A lot of things can be done without sessions. Don't think about webpage in 
> internet only. php can do much more things...

I'm aware of it as I (unfortunately) use PHP for other purposes. However
it's not the case of big traffic. And it shouldn't be apache.

> But this way we could end with one-big-php-lib because "each module is 
> unsignificant".

I guess that's the way PHP is used when performance is the issue.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From blues at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 13:13:41 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:13:41 +0100 (CET)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=E6_aktualnego_pcre=2C_problem_z_php-eaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <200912021300.39788@wojtosz>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912021300.39788@wojtosz>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021312270.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Wojciech B?aszkowski wrote:
> > > There is REALY a lots of packages / scripts / what_ever wich requres 
> > > session. IMO excluding session to single package is NOT a good idea.
> > goal is to write down deps in pkgs. too bad original spec developer 
> > didn't care writing down requirements. these are usually written in 
> > README files, etc. welcome to pld... so are packages broken with sense 
> > of requiring exact apache modules they use.  and they still are since 
> > 2.0 split each module. nobody is in care to fix those.
> Oh, com on glen.. Just revert that change and every thing will be back 
> to normal. We do NOT have to split everything just because we can.

_Maybe_ he shouldn't do this... But it's done now and we shouldn't reverse 
it.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From patrys at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec  2 13:22:51 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:22:51 +0100
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=C4=87_aktualnego_pcre=2C_p?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?roblem_z_php=2Deaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <20091202120746.GF979@polanet.pl>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202095130.GB11978@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021146060.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202105115.GA979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021152380.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202110559.GB979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021209410.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202112622.GD979@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021247330.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091202120746.GF979@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912020422k29b77687q3d16ba37bb3c90b0@mail.gmail.com>

2009/12/2 Tomasz Pala <gotar at polanet.pl>:
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 12:51:54 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:
>> But this way we could end with one-big-php-lib because "each module is
>> unsignificant".
> I guess that's the way PHP is used when performance is the issue.

Actually when PHP is used as FCGI the footprint of using shared
libraries is negligible. They only get loaded once (at FCGI startup),
not once per request or once per apache process. All apache processes
use sockets to talk to the same threaded FCGI daemon.

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From glen at pld-linux.org  Thu Dec  3 07:12:24 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 08:12:24 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091202095945.GA3424@woland.michal.waw.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021156.28020.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091202095945.GA3424@woland.michal.waw.pl>
Message-ID: <200912030812.25341.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 11:59:45 Michal Kochanowicz wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:56:27AM +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
> > and php is not sent to main, so all is in a way pld operates.
>
> It is in main.

you can ask your RM to restore old version from archive...

-rw-r--r-- 1 pldth pldth 8.7K 2009-09-18 21:39 .archive/PLD/SRPMS/.metadata/php-5.2.11-1.src.rpm.info

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Thu Dec  3 07:18:33 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-1?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 08:18:33 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?utf-8?q?wymaga=C4=87_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<20091202093230.GA8525@polanet.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021036140.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <200912030818.33609.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 11:39:10 Pawel Golaszewski wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> > > you're writing of yourself in third tense? what is this letter about?
> >
> > About broken PHP. Not by me.
> >
> > > everybody is welcome to fix packages and stbr them to builders, there's
> > > even !stbr bot on irc for really everyone(?).
> >
> > There are already two votes to revert your change.
>
> The only mistake here is requires missing. php-common should require
> packeges that are in separate modules now. For few months, to satisfy
> existing instalations. After that is could be suggest only, if any.

the time bomb can be installed, but when it expires, then why would bother 
then anybody fix the deps if they couldn't do them (or report them) while 
package was in testing repo?

> package spliting itself is ok, IMO.

in fact, the pcre, session were separate packages. call it either bad package 
management or lazyness or introducing features that were not available as 
shared [1]. before that you were supposed to fill the requires lines for both 
modules, why were they discontinued being added?

[1] - session was made static because mm module was not thread safe. very 
later zts was enabled for all sapis as otherwise modules were not shareable 
between sapis.

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Thu Dec  3 08:44:21 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-1?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:44:21 +0200
Subject: php autodep generator (was: Re: Aktualne PHP powinno
	=?utf-8?q?wymaga=C4=87_aktualnego?= pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator)
Message-ID: <200912030944.21912.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Wednesday 02 December 2009 12:18:14 Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
> On Wednesday 02 December 2009 12:08:35 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:54:13 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
> > > goal is to write down deps in pkgs. too bad original spec developer
> > > didn't care writing down requirements. these are usually written in
> > > README files,
> >
> > You're kidding? Maybe we should enumerate such things like glibc or FHS
> > too, in case someone in future has a brilliant idea and splits something?
>
> glibc is enumerated.
>
> you're welcome to write php autodep generator.
>
> there's some unfinished work done @
> http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/SOURCES.old/rpm-php-requires.php

now at
http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/packages/rpm/rpm-php-requires.php

tested it now on cacti...

seems noautodep on pear(.*) likely needed, i.e to catch only extension deps.

and also mysql/pgsql/ldap as those are optional.
but what about the extension dep. 
if main requirement is php 5.2.0, then extensions use virtual dep, 
which could still result you incomplete installations as the php4 extension satisfy. 

version the virtual dependencies too?
support only php5+? (in which means no more php4 supported in any pld distro branches)

$ find /home/glen/tmp/cacti-0.8.7e-root-glen -name '*.php' | ./rpm-php-requires.php
pear($path/$file/setup.php)
pear(include/top_header.php)
pear(include/bottom_footer.php)
pear(../lib/import.php)
pear(/etc/webapps/cacti/config.php)
pear(/usr/share/php/adodb/adodb.inc.php)
pear(../lib/data_query.php)
pear(../lib/tree.php)
pear(../lib/poller.php)
pear(../lib/template.php)
pear(../include/global.php)
pear(../lib/utility.php)
pear(0_8_to_0_8_1.php)
pear(0_8_1_to_0_8_2.php)
pear(0_8_2_to_0_8_2a.php)
pear(0_8_2a_to_0_8_3.php)
pear(0_8_3_to_0_8_4.php)
pear(0_8_4_to_0_8_5.php)
pear(0_8_5a_to_0_8_6.php)
pear(0_8_6_to_0_8_6a.php)
pear(0_8_6c_to_0_8_6d.php)
pear(0_8_6d_to_0_8_6e.php)
pear(0_8_6f_to_0_8_6g.php)
pear(0_8_6g_to_0_8_6h.php)
pear(0_8_6h_to_0_8_6i.php)
pear(0_8_6j_to_0_8_7.php)
pear(0_8_7_to_0_8_7a.php)
pear(0_8_7a_to_0_8_7b.php)
pear(0_8_7b_to_0_8_7c.php)
pear(0_8_7c_to_0_8_7d.php)
pear(0_8_7d_to_0_8_7e.php)
php-common >= 4:5.2.0
php(ftp)
php(gettext)
php(hash)
php(ldap)
php(mysql)
php(pcre)
php(posix)
php(session)
php(snmp)
php(sockets)
php(xml)

-- 
glen


From gotar at polanet.pl  Fri Dec  4 11:53:48 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:53:48 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021312270.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912021300.39788@wojtosz>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021312270.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <20091204105348.GB20658@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 13:13:41 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:

> _Maybe_ he shouldn't do this... But it's done now and we shouldn't reverse 
> it.

Well, let sb fix HEAD, but it's obvious that this change MUST be
reverted in Ac. This line is frozen and there is NO PLACE for ANY
changes, especially so invasive.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From blues at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec  4 12:09:26 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:09:26 +0100 (CET)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Re=3A_Aktualne_PHP_powinno_wymaga=E6_aktualnego_pcre=2C_problem_z_php-eaccelerator?=
In-Reply-To: <20091204105348.GB20658@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912021038.56925@wojtosz>
	<200912021154.13953.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912021300.39788@wojtosz>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021312270.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091204105348.GB20658@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912041208440.22828@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009, Tomasz Pala wrote:
> > _Maybe_ he shouldn't do this... But it's done now and we shouldn't 
> > reverse it.
[...]
> but it's obvious that this change MUST be reverted in Ac. This line is 
> frozen and there is NO PLACE for ANY changes, especially so invasive.

I can agree with that.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From glen at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec  4 13:18:57 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-1?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:18:57 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?utf-8?q?wymaga=C4=87_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091204105348.GB20658@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021312270.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091204105348.GB20658@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912041418.58132.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Friday 04 December 2009 12:53:48 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 13:13:41 +0100, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:
> > _Maybe_ he shouldn't do this... But it's done now and we shouldn't
> > reverse it.
>
> Well, let sb fix HEAD, but it's obvious that this change MUST be
> reverted in Ac. This line is frozen and there is NO PLACE for ANY
> changes, especially so invasive.

it is not in ac main/updates, so calm down?

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec  4 13:25:45 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?utf-8?q?Ruusam=C3=A4e?=)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:25:45 +0200
Subject: packages: libpng/libpng.spec - up to 1.2.41 - patches updated
	(except apng....
In-Reply-To: <packages_libpng_libpng.spec.1.170@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_libpng_libpng.spec.1.169@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_libpng_libpng.spec.1.170@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <200912041425.45494.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Friday 04 December 2009 11:44:46 lisu wrote:
> Author: lisu                         Date: Fri Dec  4 09:44:46 2009 GMT
> Module: packages                      Tag: HEAD
> ---- Log message:
> - up to 1.2.41
> - patches updated (except apng.patch, which is not ready yet)
>
> ---- Files affected:
> packages/libpng:
>    libpng.spec (1.169 -> 1.170)
>
> ---- Diffs:
>
> ================================================================
> Index: packages/libpng/libpng.spec
> diff -u packages/libpng/libpng.spec:1.169 packages/libpng/libpng.spec:1.170
> --- packages/libpng/libpng.spec:1.169	Fri Sep 18 23:12:08 2009
> +++ packages/libpng/libpng.spec	Fri Dec  4 10:44:41 2009
> @@ -1,5 +1,6 @@
>  # $Revision$, $Date$
>  # NOTE: try to switch to ac/am/lt build on 1.2.x->1.4.x upgrade
> +# TODO: update apng.patch when possible
>  Summary:	PNG library
>  Summary(de.UTF-8):	PNG-Library
>  Summary(es.UTF-8):	Biblioteca PNG
> @@ -8,13 +9,13 @@
>  Summary(pt_BR.UTF-8):	Biblioteca PNG
>  Summary(tr.UTF-8):	PNG kitapl???
>  Name:		libpng
> -Version:	1.2.40
> +Version:	1.2.41
>  Release:	1
>  Epoch:		2
>  License:	distributable
>  Group:		Libraries
>  Source0:	http://dl.sourceforge.net/libpng/%{name}-%{version}.tar.xz
> -# Source0-md5:	785dc0cb147f293fadcf5ef2fbad7bf7
> +# Source0-md5:	5aca52d472cb53035a7424f5ce3650ef
>  Patch0:		%{name}-pngminus.patch
>  Patch1:		%{name}-opt.patch
>  Patch2:		%{name}-norpath.patch
> @@ -154,7 +155,8 @@
>  %patch2 -p1
>  %patch3 -p1
>  %patch4 -p1
> -%patch5 -p0
> +# to be updated
> +#%%patch5 -p0
>
>  %ifarch %{ix86}
>  ln -sf scripts/makefile.gcmmx ./Makefile
> @@ -237,6 +239,10 @@
>  All persons listed below can be reached at <cvs_login>@pld-linux.org
>
>  $Log$
> +Revision 1.170  2009/12/04 09:44:41  lisu
> +- up to 1.2.41
> +- patches updated (except apng.patch, which is not ready yet)

you may not do such thing!

we shouldn't flip-flop functionality

if you work is unfinished, leave non-integer release
altho just NOT DISABLING patch would had been fine too.

additionally you disabled some feature, but left Provides lines alone

bad bad boy!



-- 
glen


From gotar at polanet.pl  Fri Dec  4 14:02:31 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:02:31 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912041418.58132.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912021312270.21083@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
	<20091204105348.GB20658@polanet.pl>
	<200912041418.58132.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091204130231.GA8222@polanet.pl>

On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 14:18:57 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

>> reverted in Ac. This line is frozen and there is NO PLACE for ANY
>> changes, especially so invasive.
> 
> it is not in ac main/updates, so calm down?

CVS tags: auto-th-php-5_2_11-13, auto-ac-php-5_2_11-13, AC-branch

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Fri Dec  4 14:21:08 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:21:08 +0100
Subject: packages: libpng/libpng.spec - up to 1.2.41 - patches updated
	(except apng....
In-Reply-To: <200912041425.45494.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_libpng_libpng.spec.1.169@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_libpng_libpng.spec.1.170@pld-linux.org>
	<200912041425.45494.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091204132108.GA13221@polanet.pl>

On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 14:25:45 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

>> +- patches updated (except apng.patch, which is not ready yet)
> 
> you may not do such thing!
> 
> we shouldn't flip-flop functionality
> 
> if you work is unfinished, leave non-integer release
> altho just NOT DISABLING patch would had been fine too.
> 
> additionally you disabled some feature, but left Provides lines alone
> 
> bad bad boy!

As one classic wrote:

"ps: and it it all took" 4 "minutes, not whole day... (and before you start fury 
on the" 4 "minutes, ask yourself how much time you spent heating the stove on 
this thread)"


"you're writing of yourself in third tense?

what is this letter about?

everybody is welcome to fix packages and stbr them to builders, there's 
even !stbr bot on irc for really everyone(?)."


"and" libpng "is not sent to main, so all is in a way pld operates.

welcome to pld!"


"it is not in ac" nor TH "main/updates, so calm down?"

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From glen at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec  4 19:41:21 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:41:21 +0200
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?q?wymaga=E6_aktualnego?= pcre,
	problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <20091204130231.GA8222@polanet.pl>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912041418.58132.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091204130231.GA8222@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912042041.21754.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Friday 04 December 2009 15:02:31 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 14:18:57 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
> >> reverted in Ac. This line is frozen and there is NO PLACE for ANY
> >> changes, especially so invasive.
> >
> > it is not in ac main/updates, so calm down?
>
> CVS tags: auto-th-php-5_2_11-13, auto-ac-php-5_2_11-13, AC-branch

so? package being built, does not mean it is in updates

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec  4 19:42:06 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?utf-8?q?Ruusam=C3=A4e?=)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:42:06 +0200
Subject: packages: grub2/grub.sysconfig - default no recovery menu
In-Reply-To: <ed7233d50912040546j15662e67s349c963362f4cc87@mail.gmail.com>
References: <packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.2@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.3@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912040546j15662e67s349c963362f4cc87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200912042042.06561.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Friday 04 December 2009 15:46:20 Bartosz ?wi?tek wrote:
> 2009/12/4 glen <glen at pld-linux.org>:
> > Author: glen ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Date: Fri Dec ?4 13:27:41 2009 GMT
> > Module: packages ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Tag: HEAD
> > ---- Log message:
> > - default no recovery menu
>
> Boy, have you lost your mind!?
> I find that option pretty useful so don't freaking turn it off by
> default!!!!

press 'e' to edit grub commandline or supply whatever you want in kernel 
commandline.

> Can you for once not try to fuck up configurations of other people!?
i added the feature i can disable it being default on as well.
if you want otherwise, disable/enable in your config.

before my changes you had nothing, not even broken or working config.

> +1 to revert
where did you got the votes that you already revert-commited?

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec  4 19:43:34 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:43:34 +0200
Subject: packages: libpng/libpng.spec - up to 1.2.41 - patches updated
	(except apng....
In-Reply-To: <20091204132108.GA13221@polanet.pl>
References: <packages_libpng_libpng.spec.1.169@pld-linux.org>
	<200912041425.45494.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091204132108.GA13221@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <200912042043.34991.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Friday 04 December 2009 15:21:08 Tomasz Pala wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 14:25:45 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
> >> +- patches updated (except apng.patch, which is not ready yet)
> >
> > you may not do such thing!
> >
> > we shouldn't flip-flop functionality
> >
> > if you work is unfinished, leave non-integer release
> > altho just NOT DISABLING patch would had been fine too.
> >
> > additionally you disabled some feature, but left Provides lines alone
> >
> > bad bad boy!
>
> As one classic wrote:
>
> "ps: and it it all took" 4 "minutes, not whole day... (and before you start
> fury on the" 4 "minutes, ask yourself how much time you spent heating the
> stove on this thread)"
>
>
> "you're writing of yourself in third tense?
>
> what is this letter about?
>
> everybody is welcome to fix packages and stbr them to builders, there's
> even !stbr bot on irc for really everyone(?)."
>
>
> "and" libpng "is not sent to main, so all is in a way pld operates.
>
> welcome to pld!"
>
>
> "it is not in ac" nor TH "main/updates, so calm down?"



-- 
glen
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3_Lisowski?= <lisu87 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: packages: libpng/libpng.spec - up to 1.2.41 - patches updated	(except apng....
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:51:10 +0100
Size: 5296
URL: </mailman/pipermail/pld-devel-en/attachments/20091204/cab428f0/attachment.eml>

From patrys at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec  4 20:27:37 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:27:37 +0100
Subject: Fwd: packages: grub2/grub.sysconfig - default no recovery menu
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912041127o7612959cp3e8ff7d3ae8b06fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.2@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.3@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912040546j15662e67s349c963362f4cc87@mail.gmail.com>
	<200912042042.06561.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912041056j57b187a1sb3f651013e6180ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<89b6ba3a0912041127o7612959cp3e8ff7d3ae8b06fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912041127g75e4eaa9m6cd0a166c23fb2be@mail.gmail.com>

2009/12/4 Bartosz ?wi?tek <shadzik at gmail.com>:
> W dniu 4 grudnia 2009 19:42 u?ytkownik Elan Ruusam?e
>> press 'e' to edit grub commandline or supply whatever you want in kernel
>> commandline.
> Yep, sure, I'm gonna waste my time by pressing 'e' each time I wan't
> single user mode - that's dump - really dump.

Sure, I guess these five seconds per year (I assume a properly
configured machine needs such maintenance mode once a year) could be
spent doing something productive like arguing over a feature enabled
and then disabled by glen.

>>> Can you for once not try to fuck up configurations of other people!?
>> i added the feature i can disable it being default on as well.
> Yes, since when? I brought kde4 to PLD I can remove it? What fucking
> philosophy is this? Are you drunk?

If people can get it back by pressing a letter or by editing a config
file, sure, go ahead. You'll save KDE guys hundreds of MBs in
downloads.

>> if you want otherwise, disable/enable in your config.
> You do so if this option adds "to much noise" to your menu. By default
> this option is used by many distros, why should we do it otherwise?

That's right (yet probably accidental): let's keep it disabled, why
should we do otherwise?

>> before my changes you had nothing, not even broken or working config.
> Bla bla bla, you're really a hero. If it wasn't you, someone else
> would have added it.

Ooh, next year I'll just I'll go and drink with glen while
SomeoneElse? adds stuff :)

>>> +1 to revert
>> where did you got the votes that you already revert-commited?
> Didn't have time to either wait for your response or to make a survey.
> Your php changes did cost me too much time after an upgrade so I
> dicided to prevent the same now with grub2.

Let me quote: "You're really a hero."

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From gotar at polanet.pl  Fri Dec  4 20:35:23 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:35:23 +0100
Subject: Aktualne PHP powinno =?iso-8859-2?Q?wy?=
	=?iso-8859-2?Q?maga=E6?= aktualnego pcre, problem z php-eaccelerator
In-Reply-To: <200912042041.21754.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091201220044.GA16391@woland.michal.waw.pl>
	<200912041418.58132.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091204130231.GA8222@polanet.pl>
	<200912042041.21754.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091204193523.GA12606@polanet.pl>

On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 20:41:21 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

>> >> reverted in Ac. This line is frozen and there is NO PLACE for ANY
>> >> changes, especially so invasive.
>> >
>> > it is not in ac main/updates, so calm down?
>>
>> CVS tags: auto-th-php-5_2_11-13, auto-ac-php-5_2_11-13, AC-branch
> 
> so?

So it's still not reverted.

> package being built, does not mean it is in updates

Bogus change on AC-branch means it could go to updates anytime. Do you
think we are going to remember about this or maybe you do count we would
not?

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Fri Dec  4 20:48:24 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:48:24 +0100
Subject: packages: libpng/libpng.spec - up to 1.2.41 - patches updated
	(except apng....
In-Reply-To: <200912042043.34991.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_libpng_libpng.spec.1.169@pld-linux.org>
	<200912041425.45494.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091204132108.GA13221@polanet.pl>
	<200912042043.34991.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091204194824.GB12606@polanet.pl>

On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 20:43:34 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

> From: Micha? Lisowski <lisu87 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: packages: libpng/libpng.spec - up to 1.2.41 - patches updated (except apng....
> To: Elan Ruusam?e <glen at pld-linux.org>
> 
> ok, ok, i'm guilty. sorry and thanks for advices.


Yes, that's the way one should admit to mistakes he has made. It's a
shame you can't do that and can't apologize for PHP fuckup.
Learn the word 'sorry' and responsibility for your actions, kid.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From patrys at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec  4 20:52:43 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:52:43 +0100
Subject: packages: libpng/libpng.spec - up to 1.2.41 - patches updated 
	(except apng....
In-Reply-To: <20091204194824.GB12606@polanet.pl>
References: <packages_libpng_libpng.spec.1.169@pld-linux.org>
	<200912041425.45494.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091204132108.GA13221@polanet.pl>
	<200912042043.34991.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<20091204194824.GB12606@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912041152h502428ddje7af0929db40dd0e@mail.gmail.com>

2009/12/4 Tomasz Pala <gotar at polanet.pl>:
> On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 20:43:34 +0200, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
>> From: Micha? Lisowski <lisu87 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: packages: libpng/libpng.spec - up to 1.2.41 - patches updated (except apng....
>> To: Elan Ruusam?e <glen at pld-linux.org>
>>
>> ok, ok, i'm guilty. sorry and thanks for advices.
> Yes, that's the way one should admit to mistakes he has made. It's a
> shame you can't do that and can't apologize for PHP fuckup.
> Learn the word 'sorry' and responsibility for your actions, kid.

If you'r trying to fake respect, try avoiding ending your sentences in "kid" :)

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From gotar at polanet.pl  Sat Dec  5 00:39:33 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 00:39:33 +0100
Subject: Fwd: packages: grub2/grub.sysconfig - default no recovery menu
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912041127g75e4eaa9m6cd0a166c23fb2be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.2@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.3@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912040546j15662e67s349c963362f4cc87@mail.gmail.com>
	<200912042042.06561.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912041056j57b187a1sb3f651013e6180ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<89b6ba3a0912041127o7612959cp3e8ff7d3ae8b06fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<89b6ba3a0912041127g75e4eaa9m6cd0a166c23fb2be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091204233933.GA27914@polanet.pl>

On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 20:27:37 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:

>> Yep, sure, I'm gonna waste my time by pressing 'e' each time I wan't
>> single user mode - that's dump - really dump.
> 
> Sure, I guess these five seconds per year (I assume a properly

Especially over phone with junior staff behind keyboard. Everyone loves
spelling games during some major system outage. It's so much fun when
every phone rings!

Sounds like you never did long-distance system repairs. So just believe
me, sometimes it's necessary to do maintaince over SMS, thus don't use
this argument please.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From gotar at polanet.pl  Sat Dec  5 00:48:29 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 00:48:29 +0100
Subject: Fwd: packages: grub2/grub.sysconfig - default no recovery menu
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912041127g75e4eaa9m6cd0a166c23fb2be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.2@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.3@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912040546j15662e67s349c963362f4cc87@mail.gmail.com>
	<200912042042.06561.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912041056j57b187a1sb3f651013e6180ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<89b6ba3a0912041127o7612959cp3e8ff7d3ae8b06fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<89b6ba3a0912041127g75e4eaa9m6cd0a166c23fb2be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091204234829.GA32718@polanet.pl>

On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 20:27:37 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:

> Sure, I guess these five seconds per year (I assume a properly
> configured machine needs such maintenance mode once a year) could be

Wrong assumption: my systems are configured properly, but PLD seems to
break a few times per year, e.g. with mdadm 3.0 or LZMA kernel.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From patrys at pld-linux.org  Sat Dec  5 12:11:48 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 12:11:48 +0100
Subject: packages: grub2/grub.sysconfig - default no recovery menu
In-Reply-To: <ed7233d50912041252y1f272506m1dfda8faa7a7c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.2@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_grub2_grub.sysconfig.1.3@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912040546j15662e67s349c963362f4cc87@mail.gmail.com>
	<200912042042.06561.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<ed7233d50912041056j57b187a1sb3f651013e6180ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<89b6ba3a0912041127o7612959cp3e8ff7d3ae8b06fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<ed7233d50912041252y1f272506m1dfda8faa7a7c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912050311p45dec723x15bc365daf6f441@mail.gmail.com>

2009/12/4 Bartosz ?wi?tek <shadzik at gmail.com>:
> 2009/12/4 Patryk Zawadzki <patrys at pld-linux.org>:
>> 2009/12/4 Bartosz ?wi?tek <shadzik at gmail.com>:
>>> Yep, sure, I'm gonna waste my time by pressing 'e' each time I wan't
>>> single user mode - that's dump - really dump.
>> Sure, I guess these five seconds per year (I assume a properly
>> configured machine needs such maintenance mode once a year) could be
>> spent doing something productive like arguing over a feature enabled
>> and then disabled by glen.
> Like you know how much development machines I have where this option
> is a "must have".

If you try to write in English at least reply to the right group.

> Pressing anything anywhere won't magically add a menu option back -
> don't you think?
> Pressing 'e' each time and adding apropriate options to get single
> user mode is a monkey job - I will gladly hire you for that if it's
> such a no big deal for you - will a banana for a day suite you as
> payment?

If you need to boot in single mode on a daily basis then you sir fail
at software.

> There are many people using PLD who don't even know what option to add
> to get to single user mode and googling it is kind of hard when your
> system doesn't boot properly.

These very same people will also have no idea what to do once they
boot with init=/bin/sh

>>> You do so if this option adds "to much noise" to your menu. By default
>>> this option is used by many distros, why should we do it otherwise?
>> That's right (yet probably accidental): let's keep it disabled, why
>> should we do otherwise?
> And this says someone who wanted to replace poldek in favour of yum
> and uses upstart (an ubuntu product). Bravo, your hipocrisy is even
> bigger than mine.

Please explain your logic flow (or rather flaw) as I fail to see both
my hypocrisy your point.

> I don't expect someone who thinks HTML is a programing language to
> understand what it means to administrate productive servers and to fix
> crucial software on them when someone else breaks it.

As much as you try to sound witty, I can safely bet that I've done
more programming in the last 12 years than you're going to make in
your entire life. In languages such as C, C++, LUA, Vala, Perl,
Python, Java, PHP or even Pascal and x86 assembler. To call HTML a
programming language would be as stupid as calling TXT one. Before you
call people names at least double-check your facts or you're going to
sound stupid.

No regards,

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From glen at pld-linux.org  Sun Dec  6 23:10:21 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-1?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 00:10:21 +0200
Subject: iceweasel
Message-ID: <200912070010.22177.glen@pld-linux.org>

"The application has been updated, but your version of SQLite is too old and 
the application cannot run." says the iceweasel on startup.

what is this fuzz about?

it requires exact sqlite version being installed as xulrunner (iceweasel?) was 
built upon?

i have installed at this time:
xulrunner-1.9.1.5-2.i686
iceweasel-3.5.5-2.i686
sqlite-2.8.17-3.i686
sqlite3-3.6.19-1.i686

-- 
glen


From ed at yen.ipipan.waw.pl  Sun Dec  6 23:29:14 2009
From: ed at yen.ipipan.waw.pl (=?iso-8859-2?q?=A3ukasz_Ma=B6ko?=)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:29:14 +0100
Subject: iceweasel
In-Reply-To: <200912070010.22177.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <200912070010.22177.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <200912062329.14845@laptok.ed.pl>

Dnia niedziela, 6 grudnia 2009, Elan Ruusam?e napisa?:
> "The application has been updated, but your version of SQLite is too old
> and the application cannot run." says the iceweasel on startup.
>
> what is this fuzz about?
>
> it requires exact sqlite version being installed as xulrunner
> (iceweasel?) was built upon?
>
> i have installed at this time:
> xulrunner-1.9.1.5-2.i686
> iceweasel-3.5.5-2.i686
> sqlite-2.8.17-3.i686
> sqlite3-3.6.19-1.i686

$ rpm -q iceweasel xulrunner sqlite sqlite3
iceweasel-3.5.5-2.i686
xulrunner-1.9.1.5-2.i686
pakiet sqlite nie jest zainstalowany
sqlite3-3.6.20-2.i686

And I have not seen any such problems.

-- 
?ukasz Ma?ko                                           GG:   2441498    _o)
Lukasz.Masko(at)ipipan.waw.pl                                           /\\
Registered Linux User #61028                                           _\_V
Ubuntu: staroafryka?skie s?owo oznaczaj?ce "Nie umiem zainstalowa? Debiana"


From glen at pld-linux.org  Mon Dec  7 08:43:05 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:43:05 +0200
Subject: iceweasel
In-Reply-To: <200912062329.14845@laptok.ed.pl>
References: <200912070010.22177.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912062329.14845@laptok.ed.pl>
Message-ID: <200912070943.07897.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Monday 07 December 2009 00:29:14 ?ukasz Ma?ko wrote:
> Dnia niedziela, 6 grudnia 2009, Elan Ruusam?e napisa?:
> > "The application has been updated, but your version of SQLite is too old
> > and the application cannot run." says the iceweasel on startup.
> >
> > what is this fuzz about?
> >
> > it requires exact sqlite version being installed as xulrunner
> > (iceweasel?) was built upon?
> >
> > i have installed at this time:
> > xulrunner-1.9.1.5-2.i686
> > iceweasel-3.5.5-2.i686
> > sqlite-2.8.17-3.i686
> > sqlite3-3.6.19-1.i686
>
> $ rpm -q iceweasel xulrunner sqlite sqlite3
> iceweasel-3.5.5-2.i686
> xulrunner-1.9.1.5-2.i686
> pakiet sqlite nie jest zainstalowany
> sqlite3-3.6.20-2.i686
>
> And I have not seen any such problems.

if you look the recent commits of xulrunner, iceweasel. then you notice that 
other people are having such problem too.

Revision 1.116  2009/10/24 18:25:49  sls
- BR: sqlite3-devel >= 3.6.10

Revision 1.71  2009/10/28 11:43:38  paszczus
- R: sqlite3 >= 3.6.19; rel 2

Revision 1.68  2009/10/13 16:38:37  gotar
- with sqlite3 3.6.16 just said 'The application has been updated, but your
  version of SQLite is too old and the application cannot run'

Revision 1.56  2009/06/30 22:04:04  hawk
- sqlite3 3.6.15 is enough

Revision 1.55  2009/06/30 21:41:10  arekm
- R: sqlite3 >= 3.6.16

Revision 1.54  2009/06/30 13:28:47  paszczus
- BR: sqlite3-devel >= 3.6.16

indeed, if i upgrade sqlite3 to version 2.6.20 which the iceweasel/xulrunner 
were linked to, then the error goes away.

imho it's something related with sqlite3 option changes recently, or does 
xulrunner really check exact sqlite3 version now?

notice r1.56 which is extra weird, that hawk reverted to older version as 
apparently in his distro branch default version was lower installed on 
builders.

anyone want to confirm this, (maybe verify from sourcecode what the check is 
about) or we keep bumping version deps each time sqlite3 is upgraded and 
rebuilding huge xulrunner/iceweasel? :)

-- 
glen


From arekm at maven.pl  Mon Dec  7 08:48:20 2009
From: arekm at maven.pl (Arkadiusz Miskiewicz)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:48:20 +0100
Subject: iceweasel
In-Reply-To: <200912070943.07897.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <200912070010.22177.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912062329.14845@laptok.ed.pl>
	<200912070943.07897.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <200912070848.20530.arekm@maven.pl>

On Monday 07 of December 2009, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:


btw.

I wondere where is this message comming from as I didn't find it in iceweasel 
sources:

"The application has been updated, but your version of SQLite is too old
and the application cannot run."

-- 
Arkadiusz Mi?kiewicz        PLD/Linux Team
arekm / maven.pl            http://ftp.pld-linux.org/


From glen at pld-linux.org  Mon Dec  7 09:45:21 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:45:21 +0200
Subject: iceweasel
In-Reply-To: <200912070848.20530.arekm@maven.pl>
References: <200912070010.22177.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912070943.07897.glen@pld-linux.org>
	<200912070848.20530.arekm@maven.pl>
Message-ID: <200912071045.21386.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Monday 07 December 2009 09:48:20 Arkadiusz Miskiewicz wrote:
> On Monday 07 of December 2009, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:
>
>
> btw.
>
> I wondere where is this message comming from as I didn't find it in
> iceweasel sources:
>
> "The application has been updated, but your version of SQLite is too old
> and the application cannot run."

usually then helps finding partial strings, not complete message:

glen at carme-pld-i686 BUILD.x86_64-linux/xulrunner-1.9.1.5 $ grep -r 'The application has been updated' .
./mozilla/storage/src/mozStorageService.cpp:            message.AppendASCII("The application has been updated, but your "

anyway, commited the strict dep to runtime [1], [2], as the rhbz [3] seems to ended up with same conclusion.

[1] http://lists.pld-linux.org/mailman/pipermail/pld-cvs-commit/Week-of-Mon-20091207/260697.html
[2] http://lists.pld-linux.org/mailman/pipermail/pld-cvs-commit/Week-of-Mon-20091207/260700.html
[3] http://bugzilla.redhat.com/480989

-- 
glen


From arekm at maven.pl  Mon Dec 14 11:26:33 2009
From: arekm at maven.pl (Arkadiusz Miskiewicz)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:26:33 +0100
Subject: ANN: ymir (x86_64 th builder) and nereid (i686 th builder)
Message-ID: <200912141126.33997.arekm@maven.pl>


ymir (x86_64 th builder) and nereid (i686 th builder) will be down starting 
today around 14:00-15:00 CET until tomorrow (similar hours).

(moving machines to datacenter)
-- 
Arkadiusz Mi?kiewicz        PLD/Linux Team
arekm / maven.pl            http://ftp.pld-linux.org/


From arekm at maven.pl  Mon Dec 14 17:39:04 2009
From: arekm at maven.pl (Arkadiusz Miskiewicz)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:39:04 +0100
Subject: ANN: ymir (x86_64 th builder) and nereid (i686 th builder)
In-Reply-To: <200912141126.33997.arekm@maven.pl>
References: <200912141126.33997.arekm@maven.pl>
Message-ID: <200912141739.04797.arekm@maven.pl>

On Monday 14 of December 2009, Arkadiusz Miskiewicz wrote:
> ymir (x86_64 th builder) and nereid (i686 th builder) will be down starting
> today around 14:00-15:00 CET

Minor correction. Downtime start is delayed until tomorrow 7:00 CET.

> until tomorrow (similar hours).
> 
> (moving machines to datacenter)
> 


-- 
Arkadiusz Mi?kiewicz        PLD/Linux Team
arekm / maven.pl            http://ftp.pld-linux.org/


From arekm at maven.pl  Tue Dec 15 18:27:04 2009
From: arekm at maven.pl (Arkadiusz Miskiewicz)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:27:04 +0100
Subject: ANN: ymir (x86_64 th builder) and nereid (i686 th builder)
In-Reply-To: <200912141739.04797.arekm@maven.pl>
References: <200912141126.33997.arekm@maven.pl>
	<200912141739.04797.arekm@maven.pl>
Message-ID: <200912151827.05022.arekm@maven.pl>

On Monday 14 of December 2009, Arkadiusz Miskiewicz wrote:
> On Monday 14 of December 2009, Arkadiusz Miskiewicz wrote:
> > ymir (x86_64 th builder) and nereid (i686 th builder) will be down
> > starting today around 14:00-15:00 CET
> 
> Minor correction. Downtime start is delayed until tomorrow 7:00 CET.
> 
> > until tomorrow (similar hours).
> >
> > (moving machines to datacenter)
> 

Builders are up now.

-- 
Arkadiusz Mi?kiewicz        PLD/Linux Team
arekm / maven.pl            http://ftp.pld-linux.org/


From patrys at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec 16 12:22:50 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:22:50 +0100
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>

Linux 2.6.32.* comes with a handy function:

CONFIG_DEVTMPFS:

"This creates a tmpfs filesystem, and mounts it at bootup
and mounts it at /dev. The kernel driver core creates device
nodes for all registered devices in that filesystem. All device
nodes are owned by root and have the default mode of 0600.
Userspace can add and delete the nodes as needed. This is
intended to simplify bootup, and make it possible to delay
the initial coldplug at bootup done by udev in userspace.
It should also provide a simpler way for rescue systems
to bring up a kernel with dynamic major/minor numbers.
Meaningful symlinks, permissions and device ownership must
still be handled by userspace."

Maybe we could simplify our geninitrd?

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From baggins at sith.mimuw.edu.pl  Wed Dec 16 13:22:00 2009
From: baggins at sith.mimuw.edu.pl (Jan =?utf-8?Q?R=C4=99korajski?=)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:22:00 +0100
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091216122200.GP20609@sith.mimuw.edu.pl>

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:

> Linux 2.6.32.* comes with a handy function:
> 
> CONFIG_DEVTMPFS:
> 
> "This creates a tmpfs filesystem, and mounts it at bootup
> and mounts it at /dev. The kernel driver core creates device
> nodes for all registered devices in that filesystem. All device
> nodes are owned by root and have the default mode of 0600.
> Userspace can add and delete the nodes as needed. This is
> intended to simplify bootup, and make it possible to delay
> the initial coldplug at bootup done by udev in userspace.
> It should also provide a simpler way for rescue systems
> to bring up a kernel with dynamic major/minor numbers.
> Meaningful symlinks, permissions and device ownership must
> still be handled by userspace."
> 
> Maybe we could simplify our geninitrd?

Better not.

http://readlist.com/lists/vger.kernel.org/linux-kernel/148/740255.html

-- 
Jan R?korajski            |  ALL SUSPECTS ARE GUILTY. PERIOD!
baggins<at>mimuw.edu.pl   |  OTHERWISE THEY WOULDN'T BE SUSPECTS, WOULD THEY?
BOFH, MANIAC              |                   -- TROOPS by Kevin Rubio


From blues at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec 16 13:46:04 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:46:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <20091216122200.GP20609@sith.mimuw.edu.pl>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216122200.GP20609@sith.mimuw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912161345110.27328@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, Jan R?korajski wrote:
> > Linux 2.6.32.* comes with a handy function:
> > 
> > CONFIG_DEVTMPFS:
> > 
> > "This creates a tmpfs filesystem, and mounts it at bootup
> > and mounts it at /dev. The kernel driver core creates device
> > nodes for all registered devices in that filesystem. All device
> > nodes are owned by root and have the default mode of 0600.
> > Userspace can add and delete the nodes as needed. This is
> > intended to simplify bootup, and make it possible to delay
> > the initial coldplug at bootup done by udev in userspace.
> > It should also provide a simpler way for rescue systems
> > to bring up a kernel with dynamic major/minor numbers.
> > Meaningful symlinks, permissions and device ownership must
> > still be handled by userspace."
> > 
> > Maybe we could simplify our geninitrd?
> Better not. 
> http://readlist.com/lists/vger.kernel.org/linux-kernel/148/740255.html

Maybe not now because it's too fresh and buggy.
But in general - IMvHO it's the right direction.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From gotar at polanet.pl  Wed Dec 16 13:47:40 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:47:40 +0100
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091216124740.GA5647@polanet.pl>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:22:50 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:

> Linux 2.6.32.* comes with a handy function:
> 
> CONFIG_DEVTMPFS:
[...]
> Maybe we could simplify our geninitrd?

How to simplify and keep support for nondist kernels?

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From patrys at pld-linux.org  Wed Dec 16 13:50:45 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:50:45 +0100
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <20091216124740.GA5647@polanet.pl>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216124740.GA5647@polanet.pl>
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912160450s6099e397y8fe1f4df5f8d0686@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Tomasz Pala <gotar at polanet.pl> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:22:50 +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
>
>> Linux 2.6.32.* comes with a handy function:
>>
>> CONFIG_DEVTMPFS:
> [...]
>> Maybe we could simplify our geninitrd?
> How to simplify and keep support for nondist kernels?

Tell people to enable this option. Just as we require them to compile
with certain filesystems enabled.

Adding uname(release) requirements to new geninitrd releases should
deal with older kernels.

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From jajcus at jajcus.net  Wed Dec 16 14:10:56 2009
From: jajcus at jajcus.net (Jacek Konieczny)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:10:56 +0100
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912160450s6099e397y8fe1f4df5f8d0686@mail.gmail.com>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216124740.GA5647@polanet.pl>
	<89b6ba3a0912160450s6099e397y8fe1f4df5f8d0686@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091216131056.GA25408@jajo.eggsoft>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 01:50:45PM +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
> Adding uname(release) requirements to new geninitrd releases should
> deal with older kernels.

Yeah? all we need is yet another uname(release) dependency?

This way we will get  to choose: geninitrd or udev (or anything what
depends on it) or have e.g. working Xserver (last time I tried the
newest kernel didn't work with ATI cards, as kernel forced KMS and our
Xserver's ATI drivers couldn't handle it yet). All because some feature,
which could stay (maybe optional), was dropped, as 'obsoleted' by some
newest kernel feature? Fortunately, there is still the 'kernel-ltm'
package in th?

Enabling CONFIG_DEVTMPFS may be good as it would help solve many
problems occurring with our current systems (most of us had probably
seen a system with useless empty /dev after some boot or udev problem),
without need to update (much) any of core packages. It could be used to
simplify things, but such simplification is not worth breaking
compatibility again. 

Greets,
        Jacek


From mike at osdn.org.ua  Wed Dec 16 19:26:45 2009
From: mike at osdn.org.ua (Michael Shigorin)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:26:45 +0200
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <20091216131056.GA25408@jajo.eggsoft>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216124740.GA5647@polanet.pl>
	<89b6ba3a0912160450s6099e397y8fe1f4df5f8d0686@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216131056.GA25408@jajo.eggsoft>
Message-ID: <20091216182645.GV32260@osdn.org.ua>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 02:10:56PM +0100, Jacek Konieczny wrote:
> Enabling CONFIG_DEVTMPFS may be good as it would help solve
> many problems occurring with our current systems (most of us
> had probably seen a system with useless empty /dev after some
> boot or udev problem), without need to update (much) any of
> core packages. It could be used to simplify things, but such
> simplification is not worth breaking compatibility again. 

JFYI, I've done dev-minimal package in ALT Linux
hoping to use it for this very reason: some bare /dev
in case modern stuff fails again.

Unfortunately didn't get around to integrating it to distros
(hmm... maybe today is the day? ;-), only installed by hand
on a few systems.

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike at altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/


From patrys at pld-linux.org  Thu Dec 17 09:40:32 2009
From: patrys at pld-linux.org (Patryk Zawadzki)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:40:32 +0100
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <20091216182645.GV32260@osdn.org.ua>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216124740.GA5647@polanet.pl>
	<89b6ba3a0912160450s6099e397y8fe1f4df5f8d0686@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216131056.GA25408@jajo.eggsoft>
	<20091216182645.GV32260@osdn.org.ua>
Message-ID: <89b6ba3a0912170040m17126cf3rbdb57dbce581627f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Michael Shigorin <mike at osdn.org.ua> wrote:
> JFYI, I've done dev-minimal package in ALT Linux
> hoping to use it for this very reason: some bare /dev
> in case modern stuff fails again.
>
> Unfortunately didn't get around to integrating it to distros
> (hmm... maybe today is the day? ;-), only installed by hand
> on a few systems.

We have udev package providing the minimum required to launch shells
(/dev/zero, /dev/console etc.). It's all nice but still requires
initramfs to create its own device nodes. In case of DEVTMPFS you
don't have to do anything at boot time, just chmod the nodes after
switch_root (or let udev rules do it) :)

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki


From mike at osdn.org.ua  Thu Dec 17 09:49:15 2009
From: mike at osdn.org.ua (Michael Shigorin)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:49:15 +0200
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912170040m17126cf3rbdb57dbce581627f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216124740.GA5647@polanet.pl>
	<89b6ba3a0912160450s6099e397y8fe1f4df5f8d0686@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216131056.GA25408@jajo.eggsoft>
	<20091216182645.GV32260@osdn.org.ua>
	<89b6ba3a0912170040m17126cf3rbdb57dbce581627f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091217084915.GG24097@osdn.org.ua>

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 09:40:32AM +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
> We have udev package providing the minimum required to launch
> shells (/dev/zero, /dev/console etc.).

Ah, cute.  I've done it when udev wasn't pretty requisite.

> In case of DEVTMPFS

Thanks, already skimmed over 2.6.32 relnotes back then.

I'm considering it (with vm_deadlock/swap-over-nfs patches)
for custom LTSP kernels, so am naturally interested in ditching
udev if no hardware changes are to occur (e.g. when we have
16M RAM or less and can't pull in all the machinery to handle
usbflash -- even full-blown udev might be too much).

-- 
while at it, http://www.altlinux.org/LTSP [ru]:
LTSP5 with the better pieces of LTSP4 back in


From jajcus at jajcus.net  Thu Dec 17 09:49:33 2009
From: jajcus at jajcus.net (Jacek Konieczny)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:49:33 +0100
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <89b6ba3a0912170040m17126cf3rbdb57dbce581627f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216124740.GA5647@polanet.pl>
	<89b6ba3a0912160450s6099e397y8fe1f4df5f8d0686@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216131056.GA25408@jajo.eggsoft>
	<20091216182645.GV32260@osdn.org.ua>
	<89b6ba3a0912170040m17126cf3rbdb57dbce581627f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091217084933.GB30806@jajo.eggsoft>

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 09:40:32AM +0100, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
> > Unfortunately didn't get around to integrating it to distros
> > (hmm... maybe today is the day? ;-), only installed by hand
> > on a few systems.
> 
> We have udev package providing the minimum required to launch shells
> (/dev/zero, /dev/console etc.).

The problem is udev providing the nodes won't help if tmpfs was already
mounted at /dev when udev is installed (often a case during chroot
installs or upgrades). And the minimum is not enough for e.g. proper
initrd building (which may fail during chroot install/upgrade when udev
tmps is not mounted). We can say these problems are human mistakes, not
package defects, but CONFIG_DEVTMPFS could help a lot in such cases. Of
course, when it is implemented correctly. Let's wait.

Greets,
        Jacek


From glen at pld-linux.org  Thu Dec 17 16:23:52 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-1?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:23:52 +0200
Subject: CONFIG_DEVTMPFS
In-Reply-To: <20091217084933.GB30806@jajo.eggsoft>
References: <89b6ba3a0912160322n15076951o3c4f8f5c3f6bb157@mail.gmail.com>
	<89b6ba3a0912170040m17126cf3rbdb57dbce581627f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091217084933.GB30806@jajo.eggsoft>
Message-ID: <200912171723.53055.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Thursday 17 December 2009 10:49:33 Jacek Konieczny wrote:
> The problem is udev providing the nodes won't help if tmpfs was already
> mounted at /dev when udev is installed

just in case, you weren't thinking so far, or just didn't know, you can still 
install the udev nodes if /dev is mounted.

mount --move /dev /mnt 
rpm -Uhv udev.rpm
mount --move /mnt /dev

or if you don't want/can't to move:

mount --bind / /mnt
cp -a /somewhere/dev /mnt/dev # or mknod directly
umount /mnt

but imho, we should put /dev contents of udev also into /lib/udev/devices, so 
that in case /dev is empty due tmpfs mount when it was installed, you still 
get at least the initial console (our /sbin/start_udev 
supports /lib/udev/devices), or _at_least_ /dev/console, as if /dev/console 
is missing you can't login even with ssh as it seems to stall somewhere at 
startup.

-- 
glen


From sparky at pld-linux.org  Fri Dec 18 14:45:17 2009
From: sparky at pld-linux.org (Przemyslaw Iskra)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:45:17 +0100
Subject: packages: open-vm-tools/open-vm-tools.spec - updated to
	2009.11.16 - added ...
In-Reply-To: <packages_open_vm_tools_open_vm_tools.spec.1.27@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_open_vm_tools_open_vm_tools.spec.1.26@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_open_vm_tools_open_vm_tools.spec.1.27@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091218134517.GA17698@pld-linux.org>

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:31:29PM +0100, paszczus wrote:
> Author: paszczus                     Date: Fri Dec 18 11:31:29 2009 GMT
> Module: packages                      Tag: HEAD
> ---- Log message:
> - updated to 2009.11.16
> - added -devel subpackage

> +%{_libdir}/open-vm-tools/plugins/common/lib*.la

Those probably aren't used at all.

-- 
 ____  Sparky{PI] -- Przemyslaw _  ___  _  _  ........... LANG...Pl..Ca..Es..En
/____) ___  ___  _ _ || Iskra  |  | _ \| |  | : WWW........ppcrcd.pld-linux.org
\____\| -_)'___| ||^'||//\\// <   |  _/| |  | : JID......sparky<at>jabberes.org
(____/||   (_-_|_||  ||\\ ||   |_ |_|  |_| _| : Mail....sparky<at>pld-linux.org


From blues at pld-linux.org  Mon Dec 21 16:25:44 2009
From: blues at pld-linux.org (Pawel Golaszewski)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:25:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: packages: mysql/mysql.spec, mysql/my.cnf (NEW) - add default
	~/.my.cnf via ...
In-Reply-To: <packages_mysql_my.cnf.1.1@pld-linux.org>
References: <packages_mysql_mysql.spec.1.469@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_mysql_my.cnf.NONE@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_mysql_my.cnf.1.1@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912211624160.15482@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009, glen wrote:
> Author: glen                         Date: Mon Dec 21 14:52:55 2009 GMT
> Module: packages                      Tag: HEAD
> ---- Log message:
> - add default ~/.my.cnf via /etc/skel
[...]
> +cp -a %{SOURCE14} $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/skel/.my.cnf
[...]
> +%attr(600,root,root) %config(noreplace) %verify(not md5 mtime size) /etc/skel/.my.cnf
[...]
> @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@
> +[client]
> +user=mysql

Please, don't put you private configs into distro. It's not a good 
default.

-- 
pozdr.  Pawe? Go?aszewski          jid:blues<at>jabber<dot>gda<dot>pl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you think of MS-DOS as mono, and Windows as stereo, then Linux is Dolby
Pro-Logic Surround Sound with Bass Boost and all the music is free.

From arekm at maven.pl  Mon Dec 21 17:23:05 2009
From: arekm at maven.pl (Arkadiusz Miskiewicz)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:23:05 +0100
Subject: packages: mysql/mysql.spec,
	mysql/my.cnf (NEW) - add default ~/.my.cnf via ...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912211624160.15482@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <packages_mysql_mysql.spec.1.469@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_mysql_my.cnf.1.1@pld-linux.org>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912211624160.15482@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <200912211723.05736.arekm@maven.pl>

On Monday 21 of December 2009, Pawel Golaszewski wrote:

> 
> > @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@
> > +[client]
> > +user=mysql
> 
> Please, don't put you private configs into distro. It's not a good
> default.
> 

Hm but it's real default in our instalation (instead of vanilla mysql root 
user).

-- 
Arkadiusz Mi?kiewicz        PLD/Linux Team
arekm / maven.pl            http://ftp.pld-linux.org/


From glen at pld-linux.org  Mon Dec 21 18:58:58 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-15?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:58:58 +0200
Subject: packages: glibc/glibc.spec - run localedb-gen only if
	$SUPPORTED_LOCALES se...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912211619120.15482@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <packages_glibc_glibc.spec.1.854@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_glibc_glibc.spec.1.855@pld-linux.org>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912211619120.15482@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <200912211958.58426.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Monday 21 December 2009 17:23:18 Pawel Golaszewski wrote:
> ...as it should. If you have localedb-src you should set some locales.
> Otherwise that package has no sense (does it?)

it does, i have it installed to build additional rpm package of locales.

-- 
glen


From glen at pld-linux.org  Mon Dec 21 19:00:12 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-15?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:00:12 +0200
Subject: packages: mysql/mysql.spec,
	mysql/my.cnf (NEW) - add default ~/.my.cnf via ...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0912211624160.15482@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
References: <packages_mysql_mysql.spec.1.469@pld-linux.org>
	<packages_mysql_my.cnf.1.1@pld-linux.org>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.0912211624160.15482@fgnss.gnfx.tqn.cy>
Message-ID: <200912212000.12414.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Monday 21 December 2009 17:25:44 Pawel Golaszewski wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009, glen wrote:
> > Author: glen                         Date: Mon Dec 21 14:52:55 2009 GMT
> > Module: packages                      Tag: HEAD
> > ---- Log message:
> > - add default ~/.my.cnf via /etc/skel
>
> [...]
>
> > +cp -a %{SOURCE14} $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/skel/.my.cnf
>
> [...]
>
> > +%attr(600,root,root) %config(noreplace) %verify(not md5 mtime size)
> > /etc/skel/.my.cnf
>
> [...]
>
> > @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@
> > +[client]
> > +user=mysql
>
> Please, don't put you private configs into distro. It's not a good
> default.

so, make it good default!

by your speak anything in /etc/skel is someones private config.

-- 
glen


From ankry at green.mif.pg.gda.pl  Fri Dec 25 01:58:59 2009
From: ankry at green.mif.pg.gda.pl (Andrzej Krzysztofowicz)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 01:58:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: missing SOURCES
Message-ID: <200912250058.nBP0wxF6029573@green.mif.pg.gda.pl>


May I ask where to look for the SOURCE files below and
may I ask for moving them to the right places?

$ builder -g acroread/acroread.spec
# $Revision: 1.99 $, $Date: 2009/10/26 11:50:43 $
WARNING! Spec name (acroread) does not agree with package name (acroread-installer)
cvs server: nothing known about acroread.png
cvs server: nothing known about acroread.desktop
cvs server: nothing known about license-installer.sh
MD5 sum mismatch or 0 size.  Use -U to refetch sources,
or -5 to update md5 sums, if you're sure files are correct.
Error: some source, patch or icon files not stored in CVS repo. (acroread.png)
$ 
$ builder -g w32codec/w32codec.spec
# $Revision: 1.101 $, $Date: 2009/12/07 08:25:38 $
WARNING! Spec name (w32codec) does not agree with package name (w32codec-installer)
cvs server: nothing known about license-installer.sh
Try greed download: license-installer.sh from: :pserver:cvs at cvs.pld-linux.org:/cvsroot
cvs server: cannot find module `SOURCES/license-installer.sh' - ignored
Error: some source, patch or icon files not stored in CVS repo. (license-installer.sh)
$ 
$ builder -g fonts-TTF-microsoft/fonts-TTF-microsoft.spec
# $Revision: 1.38 $, $Date: 2009/10/26 11:51:32 $
WARNING! Spec name (fonts-TTF-microsoft) does not agree with package name (fonts-TTF-microsoft-installer)
cvs server: nothing known about Microsoft-EULA.txt
cvs server: nothing known about license-installer.sh
MD5 sum mismatch or 0 size.  Use -U to refetch sources,
or -5 to update md5 sums, if you're sure files are correct.
Error: some source, patch or icon files not stored in CVS repo. (Microsoft-EULA.txt)

-- 
=======================================================================
  Andrzej M. Krzysztofowicz                  ankry at mif.pg.gda.pl


From z at xatka.net  Fri Dec 25 10:13:54 2009
From: z at xatka.net (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3?= Zuzelski)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:13:54 +0100
Subject: missing SOURCES
In-Reply-To: <200912250058.nBP0wxF6029573@green.mif.pg.gda.pl>
References: <200912250058.nBP0wxF6029573@green.mif.pg.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <20091225091353.GA4215@davabel>

On Fri, 25 Dec 2009, Andrzej Krzysztofowicz wrote:
> May I ask where to look for the SOURCE files below and
> may I ask for moving them to the right places?

They are in CVS. For example see
http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/packages/fonts-TTF-microsoft/license-installer.sh?rev=1.12;content-type=text%2Fplain

Maybe you are on wrong branch?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Pawe?


From ankry at green.mif.pg.gda.pl  Fri Dec 25 13:12:10 2009
From: ankry at green.mif.pg.gda.pl (Andrzej Krzysztofowicz)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:12:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: missing SOURCES
In-Reply-To: <20091225091353.GA4215@davabel>
Message-ID: <200912251212.nBPCCApS031712@green.mif.pg.gda.pl>

=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3?= Zuzelski wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009, Andrzej Krzysztofowicz wrote:
> > May I ask where to look for the SOURCE files below and
> > may I ask for moving them to the right places?
> 
> They are in CVS. For example see
> http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/packages/fonts-TTF-microsoft/license-installer.sh?rev=1.12;content-type=text%2Fplain
> 
> Maybe you are on wrong branch?

Unlikely. This try was made on a fresh system.
But you are probably right. The problem should be related with local
configuration.

However two of the mentioned packages (w32codec, fonts-TTF-microsoft) still
need fixes to work with current packages structure.

-- 
=======================================================================
  Andrzej M. Krzysztofowicz                  ankry at mif.pg.gda.pl


From gotar at polanet.pl  Fri Dec 25 13:13:15 2009
From: gotar at polanet.pl (Tomasz Pala)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:13:15 +0100
Subject: missing SOURCES
In-Reply-To: <20091225091353.GA4215@davabel>
References: <200912250058.nBP0wxF6029573@green.mif.pg.gda.pl>
	<20091225091353.GA4215@davabel>
Message-ID: <20091225121315.GA15666@polanet.pl>

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:13:54 +0100, Pawe? Zuzelski wrote:

>> May I ask where to look for the SOURCE files below and
>> may I ask for moving them to the right places?
> 
> They are in CVS. For example see
> http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/packages/fonts-TTF-microsoft/license-installer.sh?rev=1.12;content-type=text%2Fplain
> 
> Maybe you are on wrong branch?

No, something hasn't been adapted during CVS layout transition. I've
encountered the same issue some time ago, but it works with
license_agreement.

-- 
Tomasz Pala <gotar at pld-linux.org>


From z at xatka.net  Fri Dec 25 14:46:02 2009
From: z at xatka.net (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3?= Zuzelski)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:46:02 +0100
Subject: missing SOURCES
In-Reply-To: <200912251212.nBPCCApS031712@green.mif.pg.gda.pl>
References: <20091225091353.GA4215@davabel>
	<200912251212.nBPCCApS031712@green.mif.pg.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <20091225134602.GC4215@davabel>

On Fri, 25 Dec 2009, Andrzej Krzysztofowicz wrote:

> =?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3?= Zuzelski wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 25 Dec 2009, Andrzej Krzysztofowicz wrote:
> > > May I ask where to look for the SOURCE files below and
> > > may I ask for moving them to the right places?
> > 
> > They are in CVS. For example see
> > http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/packages/fonts-TTF-microsoft/license-installer.sh?rev=1.12;content-type=text%2Fplain
> > 
> > Maybe you are on wrong branch?
> 
> Unlikely. This try was made on a fresh system.
> But you are probably right. The problem should be related with local
> configuration.
> 
> However two of the mentioned packages (w32codec, fonts-TTF-microsoft) still
> need fixes to work with current packages structure.

fixed in fonts-TTF-microsoft-20020525-8 and w32codec-20071007-5

Thanks for reporting this.

-- 
Regards,
Pawe?


From z at xatka.net  Thu Dec 31 10:28:57 2009
From: z at xatka.net (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3?= Zuzelski)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:28:57 +0100
Subject: JDK/JRE packaging
Message-ID: <20091231092857.GB4250@davabel.touk.pl>

Hello,

currently in PLD it is impossible to install few JDKs or JREs on
single system, because of files in %{_mandir} and %{_bindir}. All
the files in %{_bindir} are symlinks to some path containing JVM
vendor and version number (for example:
/usr/lib/jvm/java-sun-1.6.0.17).

If we create a new subpackage containing only these files, it will
be possible to install few JDKs/JREs and choose the default one by
installing apropriate "symlinks" subpackage. Other JDKs/JREs can be
accessed using JAVA_HOME env variable.

My proposition:
1. move content of %{name} to %{name}-java_home-jdk subpackage
2. move content of %{name}-jre to %{name}-java_home-jre
   subpackage
3. move content of %{name}-tools to %{name}-java_home-tools
   subpackage
4. leave %{_bindir}/* and %{_mandir}/* in %{name}, %{name}-jre,
   %{name}-tools

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Pawe?


From wrobell at pld-linux.org  Thu Dec 31 11:27:37 2009
From: wrobell at pld-linux.org (Artur Wroblewski)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:27:37 +0000
Subject: JDK/JRE packaging
In-Reply-To: <20091231092857.GB4250@davabel.touk.pl>
References: <20091231092857.GB4250@davabel.touk.pl>
Message-ID: <950d18960912310227y7d4562dfq1f8996becfb20f78@mail.gmail.com>

2009/12/31 Pawe? Zuzelski <z at xatka.net>:
> Hello,
>
> currently in PLD it is impossible to install few JDKs or JREs on
> single system, because of files in %{_mandir} and %{_bindir}. All
> the files in %{_bindir} are symlinks to some path containing JVM
> vendor and version number (for example:
> /usr/lib/jvm/java-sun-1.6.0.17).
>
> If we create a new subpackage containing only these files, it will
> be possible to install few JDKs/JREs and choose the default one by
> installing apropriate "symlinks" subpackage. Other JDKs/JREs can be
> accessed using JAVA_HOME env variable.

or drop idea of links and provide package which sets PATH and
JAVA_HOME in /etc/sh.d?

regards,

w


From glen at pld-linux.org  Thu Dec 31 11:59:36 2009
From: glen at pld-linux.org (Elan =?iso-8859-2?q?Ruusam=E4e?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:59:36 +0200
Subject: JDK/JRE packaging
In-Reply-To: <20091231092857.GB4250@davabel.touk.pl>
References: <20091231092857.GB4250@davabel.touk.pl>
Message-ID: <200912311259.36436.glen@pld-linux.org>

On Thursday 31 December 2009 11:28:57 Pawe? Zuzelski wrote:
> currently in PLD it is impossible to install few JDKs or JREs on
> single system, because of files in %{_mandir} and %{_bindir}.

you mean:

"currently in PLD it is impossible to install multiple JDKs or JREs on
single system, because of files in %{_mandir} and %{_bindir}."

?



-- 
glen


From jajcus at jajcus.net  Thu Dec 31 13:25:45 2009
From: jajcus at jajcus.net (Jacek Konieczny)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:25:45 +0100
Subject: JDK/JRE packaging
In-Reply-To: <950d18960912310227y7d4562dfq1f8996becfb20f78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091231092857.GB4250@davabel.touk.pl>
	<950d18960912310227y7d4562dfq1f8996becfb20f78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091231122545.GF27739@jajo.eggsoft>

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:27:37AM +0000, Artur Wroblewski wrote:
> 2009/12/31 Pawe? Zuzelski <z at xatka.net>:
> > Hello,
> >
> > currently in PLD it is impossible to install few JDKs or JREs on
> > single system, because of files in %{_mandir} and %{_bindir}. All
> > the files in %{_bindir} are symlinks to some path containing JVM
> > vendor and version number (for example:
> > /usr/lib/jvm/java-sun-1.6.0.17).
> >
> > If we create a new subpackage containing only these files, it will
> > be possible to install few JDKs/JREs and choose the default one by
> > installing apropriate "symlinks" subpackage. Other JDKs/JREs can be
> > accessed using JAVA_HOME env variable.
> 
> or drop idea of links and provide package which sets PATH and
> JAVA_HOME in /etc/sh.d?

And end with multiple-line-spanning $PATH (when we extend this procedure
for other packages) and no way to use direct, provider-independent,
paths to java tools where $PATH processing is not available (some of
such places: '#!' script headers (not applicable to java, though), sudo
configuration).

Having all command-line utilities in standard $PATH is IMHO a good thing
we should keep. The thing to think about is how to manage %{_bindir}
contents so alternatives can easily be used and co-exist.

Greets,
        Jacek


From z at xatka.net  Thu Dec 31 13:37:13 2009
From: z at xatka.net (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3?= Zuzelski)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:37:13 +0100
Subject: JDK/JRE packaging
In-Reply-To: <200912311259.36436.glen@pld-linux.org>
References: <20091231092857.GB4250@davabel.touk.pl>
	<200912311259.36436.glen@pld-linux.org>
Message-ID: <20091231123713.GC4250@davabel.touk.pl>

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009, Elan Ruusam?e wrote:

> On Thursday 31 December 2009 11:28:57 Pawe? Zuzelski wrote:
> > currently in PLD it is impossible to install few JDKs or JREs on
> > single system, because of files in %{_mandir} and %{_bindir}.
> 
> you mean:
> 
> "currently in PLD it is impossible to install multiple JDKs or JREs on
> single system, because of files in %{_mandir} and %{_bindir}."

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Sorry for my english, my polish is
a bit better :)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Pawe?


From z at xatka.net  Thu Dec 31 14:43:47 2009
From: z at xatka.net (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Pawe=B3?= Zuzelski)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:43:47 +0100
Subject: JDK/JRE packaging
In-Reply-To: <20091231122545.GF27739@jajo.eggsoft>
References: <20091231092857.GB4250@davabel.touk.pl>
	<950d18960912310227y7d4562dfq1f8996becfb20f78@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091231122545.GF27739@jajo.eggsoft>
Message-ID: <20091231134347.GD4250@davabel.touk.pl>

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009, Jacek Konieczny wrote:
> such places: '#!' script headers (not applicable to java, though), sudo

Why not? It is applicable to java. Just try it:

echo '#!/usr/bin/java -jar' > file.jar
cat some_java_app.jar >> file.jar
chmod a+x file.jar
./file.jar

:)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Pawe?